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Been a long type since I have reloaded pistol. Taper crimp takes a speccial die marked taper crimp, right? Roll crimp is used only on bullets with cannelures? If no cannelure and no taper crimp die, than no crimp, correct. So if I don't have a taper crimp die and no cannelure, no crimp whatsoever, correct? Did I get all that right? Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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Taper crimp die is so marked. Consistency between batches of ammo is obtained my measuring the case mouth diameter after crimping and making it the same (if the dies have been removed from the press between runs). Roll crimping can be done with a bullet having no cannelure ... just is done lightly ... which is what you have to do with ammo for auto pistols. You have to be careful not to over crimp cartridges that headspace on the case mouth. Another alternative is the Lee Factory Crimp die ... is great on things like the 40 S&W. Have had very good success for hundreds of thousands of rounds with the taper crimp in 9x18, 9x19, 9x21, Super and .45 ACP. The Lee factory crimp die works of 40 S&W very well. Mike -------------- DRSS, Womper's Club, NRA Life Member/Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles ... Knifemaker, http://www.mstarling.com | |||
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Okay so since I don't have a Taper Crimp die and there is no cannelure, I do a light roll crimp, correct? and thanks Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike, if you have dies for 9mm or 380, the seating die should have a taper crimp built in, my RCBS dies do. Just turn the die down until you straighten out the cse bell. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Roll crimp is for rimmed cases and taper crimp for rimless cases.I wouldn't use the roll on rimless cases even light because you may have headspace problems and not grip the bullet enough. Another variable is the expander die, a proper one will create good grip on the bullet which should be further gripped when using the taper crimp. | |||
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Rimless semi-auto cartridges like the 380, 9MM, 45 acp. ect use a taper crimp since they headspace on the case mouth. (I know about the extractor holding the case to the breech) Fred has it right, your seating die if you have a 3 die set has a taper crimp built in. All you want to do is remove the bell to insure the round chambers freely. Don`t over crimp or feed problems can arise. Roll crimps are normally but, not always done on rimmed cartridges used in revolvers. A roll crimp is not recommended in place of a taper crimp because it can cause feed/chambering problems. ------------------------------------ The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray "Why shouldn`t truth be stranger then fiction? Fiction after all has to make sense." (Samual Clemens) "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt". | |||
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Guys, Are you saying there is a taper crimp built into the seating dies even if it isn't marked "taper crimp" or "tc". Per the RCBS instructions it seems to indicate the dies should marked TC or Taper otherwise it doesn't have a taper crimp. Please clarify? Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Some of the Redding sets do not have a crimp built into the seater. A separate crimp die is provided in the set. | |||
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I haven't bought a set of pistol dies in maybe 20 years. My old RCBS and Redding dies are all capable of providing a roll crimp. I bought extra taper crimp dies for all the calibers I load. They can generate a much tighter closure of the case mouth than the seating of the bullet just short of a crimp. In the "old" days the usual culprit was the 45 ACP ... even with a slight roll crimp the bullet might be pushed back into the case when chambered in a pistol that did not have a ramped barrel or that had a heavy recoil spring. The Lee factory crimp die I acquired more recently than that for the 40 S&W is different yet but puts a tighter hold on the bullet. The whole issue is getting enough crimp on the bullet without either taper crimping or roll crimping so tightly that it affects the headspacing of the round. (p.s. I load pistol ammo with large primers on a Dillon 550, and with small primers on a Dillon 1050.) Mike -------------- DRSS, Womper's Club, NRA Life Member/Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles ... Knifemaker, http://www.mstarling.com | |||
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Mike, The seating die of an auto pistol set should incorporate a taper crimp. I set mine so that I seat the bullets to depth without touching the crimp shoulder, then back out the seating punch and lower the die to contact the case neck, then two flats (1/3 turn) more and crimp (.45ACP, Rainier 185gr. PFP.) Of course, your brass must be of uniform wall thickness and all the same length or you will have to set the die for each one, which is exactly what I do with mixed brass or brass which has been fired since it was last trimmed. I always let the die "float" in the press threads so that it aligns itself more easily, again because case necks are not perfect. Whatever method you choose (including NO crimp) be absolutely sure that the cycling of the pistol will NOT push the bullet deeper into the case - extreme pressure excursions WILL occur. Good shooting, BV | |||
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There is a lot of confusion it seems, concerning just what Lee's "factory" crimp dies do. The handgun dies are typical roll or taper crimps, except for the bottleneck pistol case crimper. Lee's handgun dies are made to "postsize" your cartridge, which can be a good thing if you like a heavy crimp or are not an experienced handgun handloader. The rifle version works on a completely different principle. http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1206...alog/dies-crimp.html If the enemy is in range, so are you. - Infantry manual | |||
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THE issue you need to bear in mind is that many autoloader pistol cartridges headspace on the case mouth, though in the case of several this can be argued... Not the theory of them headspacing on the case mouth, but them headspacing that way in actual practice that can be argued against. (Theory somes falls flat in the face of facts) 9mm, 38Super, 40S&W, 10mm, 45ACP In any of these cases a light roll crimp won't hurt, but it's unlikely to help either... a taper crimp die is usually a good investment for reliable feeding and accuracy. The reason I say it's "argueable" is that though the 45ACP is supposed to headspace on the mouth in some chambers it doesn't come close, but rather headspaces on the extractor. The 38super which is supposed to headspace on it's rim actually headspaces on the extractor OR in more recent barrels the chamber dimensions have been changed (the chamber shortened) to allow it to actually headspace on the case mouth... The 380 usually does actually headspace on the rim, so the type of crimp isn't strictly relevant, and the 9mm is self-limited by the body taper, though it takes a tight chamber and if the case seats too deeply it can "stick" AD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Can someone answer the above question? Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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the RCBS seating dies I have that taper crimp are marked, not with "T", not with "TC" but it's spelled out "TAPER CRIMP" on the top of the die. It is this way on my 9mm Luger seater and my 10mm, both dating from the early 90's. AD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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