The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Re: Poor Customer Service from IMR/HodgdonGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| one of us |
What a friggin crybaby. First off, Sierra is a bullet manufacturer. Second, they keep copies of the powder manufacturer's data pubs in addition to their own test data. They simply regurgitate the data from other published sources if they haven't tested it themselves. A great service indeed, and they are most helpful. IMR/Hodgdon makes powder. They test THEIR powder not Accurate's. For them to give out data on some one else's powder that they have not tested would be suicide in today's litigious society. NBesides, you obviously know how to work a computer well enough to come here and whine. Why not look up the accurate data. A simple google search and ten seconds later you would have had your answer! Grow up! | ||
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| one of us |
I don't think I could fault them for that myself. As a bullet manufacturer, Sierra has a vested interest in knowing how the various powders perform behind their bullets. A powder manufacturer has no such need, as they should be most concerned with their own products. Would it have been nice had they given you the help? Of course it would, but hardly an indictment of the company. That said, I'll pass on my own experience with Hodgdon. When I started reloading I developed a mysterious problem with casehead seperations in my 6.5x55 loads. They were mild loads and I couldn't figure it out. Eventually tracked down to a combination of lousy PMC (yeah a redundancy there) brass and load data that didn't take barrel length into account. I posted a question detailing the problem, with load specs on rec.guns and while several posted replies, I received a direct email out of the blue from Bruce (I think, it's been awhile)Hodgdon, who saw the H380 in my load data, and wanted to know if he could help with my load development. Very graciously, he offered whatever help I needed, including load development for both rifles I had in that caliber. I thanked him, and was very impressed that he took the time to look for people asking questions that related to his products and to actually correspond. While I rarely use Hodgdon powders now, I still respect them a lot. Eric | |||
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When was the last time you called up Ford and asked them how to fix your Chevy??? Geez! You don't seem to have a beef that Accurate Powder didn't have someone sitting by the phone to answer your questions about their powder. I agree with the other posters: Buy a reloading book and a box of tissues.  | |||
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How about this...you BUY a reloading manual... IMR and Hogdon did exactly what they should have done...it aint their product, they don't have test data on it, they certainly don't need the liability associated with giving load advice on something they don't sell... | |||
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Quote: Yes  | |||
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You are joking, right? BTW, IMR and Hodgden powders have worked well for me in the past and I will gladly keep using them. | |||
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Hey Eterry, Probably 6-10 years ago "Hyatt Gun Shop" in Charlotte, NC had the AA-MRP "On Sale" for (I think) $6/#. I'd only used AA-2700 in the past, so I got 5 jugs to try out. Kept 3 and took 2 to a buddy. If you will open your jug of AA-MRP, you might find a sheet of Load Data on top of the Powder, cause we did. Or, since the Load Data is available in lots of places, they may have quit including this sheet - I don't know. We both have all kinds of rifles the AA-MRP is "suited for" and we sure tried it out. Neither of us could match the accuracy levels we were/are able to attain with our regular Powders. He is an IMR Powder advocate and I use some of the IMR but mostly Hodgdon. That dosen't mean you won't get good accuracy though, cause all firearms are different. ... For what it is worth, the advice to get some Reloading Manuals from the above posters is an excellent idea. All the Powder manufacturers even give out FREE ones. I've found them to have some Loads in those FREEBIES that aren't even in the regular Load Manuals. And they all now have web-sites. | |||
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Several years ago I purchased a couple pounds of Accurate Magnum Rifle Powder. I had no use for it then but planned on using it someday, you know how us reloaders are. Anyway... last week I decided I wanted to try it. The package said it is ballistically comparable to Hodgdon 4831 and IMR 4831. I didn't have any Accurate loading data and their offices were closed so I thought I would call Hodgdon/IMR and ask them for data. WRONG !!!!! The customer service rep told me in no uncertain terms as it was a competitive brand of powder he would not give me any data, even though he admitted he had data for H-4831/IMR-4831 in the caliber I was asking about. I then asked him if I had told him it was H-4831 would he have given me data, and he said YES. Am I the only one who thinks that is a crock of SHIT ???????? I later called Sierra, whom I have used for years for info and was helped promptly and courteously...even though they don'tmake or sell powder they were more than happy to assist me with finding loads for my project. Bottom line..... I went to my local reloading supplier today and bought more Accurate powder...I plan to wean myself off IMR/hodgdon. Just wanted others to know of the lousy customer service from the IMR/Hodgdon Family of powders. Good luck and good shooting, Eterry | |||
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| Moderator |
Eterry, You are waaaay off-base. First, you weren't THEIR customer, you were AA's customer. They are a competitor to AA; they are under no obligation to help you enjoy a competitor's product. Another reason (and probably the main reason they declined to help) is that they would open themselves up to all sorts of liability if the data they gave you resulted in injury or death. George | |||
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Without repeating a bunch of things, I gotta say, I agree with the rest here. You are mad at the wrong people, for the wrong reasons. | |||
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Next, you'll be asking Ruger to fix your Remchester! As others have said, do what any responsible person would do, and beg, borrow or steal a reloading manual - or at the very least, go to the manufacturer's website, and see if there's any data there! I might be at odds with your Mom, but sorry, the world doesn't revolve around you! By the way, as far as I know, IMR 4831 and H 4831 are NOT the same animal. I've been dealing with 'Joe Public' for more years than I care to remember, and I would have done exactly the same thing - you ain't my customer, and you will sue the ass off me when I give you info in good faith, and you happen to blow the nose off your face!! Mom's apron strings await you! That's where you belong! Grow up! In all honesty, they gave you EXCELLENT customer service - it isn't their product - how can they give you information? They may have saved your life. Now THAT's customer service!! | |||
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Quote: And, you're their customer how??? RSY p.s. If you really want IMR or Hodgdon data, the whole kit and kaboodle is on their respective websites. No need to talk to anyone, at all. | |||
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Quote: Ditto! -Bob F. | |||
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What I do is buy a good manual which cites the powders I prefer. I'd also suggest a copy of Ken Water's book "Pet Loads". Excellent reading and a wealth of knowledge even if you were to know enough to be able to dispute some of his methodology. We get this sort of inquiry all the time. A caller will want to know all about all the artists we DON'T publish. Things like their policies, upcoming projects, publishing and release schedules, and so forth. Some actually get upset when we don't know the answers to their questions and even more so when we haven't heard of their local hero. Quite frankly, you are wrong. IMR/Hogdon is responsible for their product ONLY. It is the height of folly to recommend loads based on a presumption that certain powders have "similar" burning rates, etc. The liability exposure would be tremendous in this industry that depends so much on the common sense of product users. It worries me that you have apparently been reloading for a while and don't realize this. Based on personal experience, the person who took your call was probably very polite considering your request. That is NOT poor customer service. Good shooting to you too! | |||
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I would not have called Hodgdon or IMR for data using Accurate Arms powders. One question though....Why does Hodgdon list loads for IMR, Hercules and Win. in there 26th edition? I notice they don't list anything for AA powders. Just wondering. | |||
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Not to fan the flames, as the court of public opinion has spoken, but I have been reloading for nearly 25 years, and currently use the following manuals; Speer, Hornady, Swift, Hodgdon, the complete Pet Loads by Waters, et al, etc. I have many others but I wont belabor the point. If you guys could have pulled your collective heads out of your asses and actually READ a manual by Hodgdon you might have accidently noticed that they DO list loads for Hercules, Hodgdon, Winchester and IMR. And as they had listed all the other brands I thought it might not hurt to see if they had data for Accurate. The fact that they DO list other companies data, and the tone of speech that the tech used was what set me off. And we all know how we hate to be talked down to. BTW, the info I was seeking was for a wildcat, not everyone has or publishes a lot of data for them. I guess it was asking to much of the "armchair experts" to actually put some thought into or do some research before making a response, but thats the way boards like these work. You ask someone for the time and they tell you how to build a watch. At least I got the blood moving in some of your veins, and got you to type wildly in hopes of impressing someone, mainly yourself. For those of you that ACTUALLY knew that Hodgdon list load from other companies, I salute you for pointing that out to the masses. Good luck and good shooting, Eterry | |||
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My question and point is that IMR list loads using IMR powder only.....AA does the same....Win. does the same....Alliant too....VV does too but Hodgdon list loads from other powder companies in there 26. I just wondered why? | |||
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My point of view is still the same. | |||
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Quote: Alright, I guess I'll pick up the gauntlet: Quote: 1. If we had a collective head, wouldn't it be coming out of just one ass??? Quote: 2. In light of all the companies' data they do publish, wouldn't it be safe to assume they don't have Accurate data since it's absent from their manual??? Quote: 3. I hope you were looking in the mirror as you typed that. Quote: 4. If you didn't value the opinion of us "armchair experts," why argue your case before "the court of public opinion," to begin with? 5. I'm still trying to see how this is a reflection of "customer service," as you stated. 6. This one just hit me: Data for a discontinued powder in a wildcat cartridge??? I think that would be "optimistic" even in a perfect world. Please, don't go into a tizzy over this; I'm only responding to what you wrote (both times). I don't think that's inappropriate, having been labeled (sight-unseen, even!) a head-up-the-ass armchair expert (think I can fit that on a t-shirt?). RSY | |||
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| one of us |
Hodgdon/IMR is an outstanding company with excellent customer service WHEN YOU AREN'T TRYING TO GET THEM IN A LAW SUITE! Any smart company would have done the same thing! | |||
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I have to agree with everyone who has posted so far, other than you! I suggest you give up reloading and take up paint-by-numbers... | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Re: Poor Customer Service from IMR/Hodgdon
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