Hi

I'm considering purchasing a set of competition dies in 7mm Rem Mag in an attampt to extract a little more long range accuracy from a Sendero. I intend to be shooting up to 500 yards. I currently use a set of standard RCBS dies to good effect and wonder whether the outlay would be worthwhile. If so which manufacturer should I opt for?

I look forward to receiving any comments.

Thanks and best wishes

Forster BR. dies have really impressed and helped the quality of all my ammo.
Tried Redding, they were OK...but Forster BR. dies are just great!!..sakofan..

Tim,

It is hard to say if new dies will help your cause. I don't care what you pay for a set of dies, the only way to tell if they are any good is by checking the runout of loaded rounds via a concrentricity gauge. Ideally you want runout to average less than 2 or three thousandths - I send back any dies producing more than 1 thousandths runout for my benchrest guns. But I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference between 1, 2, or 3 thousands runout Also, bushing dies offer the benefit of being able to control neck tension and are necessary with some tight-neck chambers. But be ware, I've had many sets of "competition" Redding neck dies that consistenly produced loaded rounds with runout in the order of 5 to 9 thousandths

Personally, I'd look elsewhere (unless you know your dies produce a lot of runout) to improve accuracy.

If the runnout of you loads is good now, I can't see that different dies, no matter whose they are, will help.

What a coincidence. I was just wondering how to
get started reloading the .22 Hornet. I have another question on here about "Crimp Dies". I was just browsing when I saw your post. I had just looked at the Midway site for Forster: http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/applications/esearch.exe/search?category_selector=9315&search_keywords=Forster+.22+Hornet+dies&Click+to+Begin+Search.x=13&Click+to+Begin+Search.y =12
Would you mind telling me what to order from this site, or if you prefer another place, let me know? I'm not only new on this site, I am a novice when it comes to reloading.
Thanks a bunch. I really appreciate it.

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Originally posted by sakofan:

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Originally posted by Tom Harger:
If the runnout of you loads is good now, I can't see that different dies, no matter whose they are, will help.

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Yes and no...IMHO...Whatever you get, the leading cause for bullet runout in my ammo, has been the expander ball assembly.

Get the K&M Expander Iron, and throw the expander ball away!!...sakofan..

And the Forster BR. seating die simply rocks!!

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dzrtram...midway is a real good place to shop for most things.
I'm not sure of your question of "what to get"...you mean dies, I take it??...sakofan..

Tim 1,

I'd suggest the Redding dies. The lowest prices I've found were at Midway. I'm currently loading
six different cartridges with the Redding dies. I think they are well worth the money. Good luck.

Once upon a time in Texas I delt with this fairtale, thus the "once upon a time" and tested standard dies in several rifles vs. special order BR dies..The result of much testing resulted in zilch, the difference was so small both ways that I just finally gave up...

I would like to see a proper study done, but bet the results would be the same as mine...

"The only difference in men and boys is the price of the mens toys" applies to the shooting faternity more than anywhere else me thinks.

Again...I felt the biggest difference in reducing runout was buying the K&M Expander Iron.

It keeps the case mouth from getting tore up by the expander ball. It reforms it squarely.

I have conducted my own test, and found it is well worth the money.IMHO...sakofan..

If you're looking to load rounds with as little runout as possible, the I have to admit that all my current batch of reloading dies are Lee Deluxe die sets with the collet and full length dies. They have some really nice features. The bullet seater bottoms out at the shellholder and has no crimping feature (which I'd never use). This takes out the slop in the linkage and keeps every round the exact same length. The collet die works brass less than any other neck sizer die, and the full length die is smoother than any I've seen yet.
The only thing competition dies add to this is the ability to know, by use of a micrometer, where your seating the bullet. I don't change bullet depth much once I find the right one. Then I mark the die so I can tell if it's adjustment has moved. I have found that if I want that kind of accuracy measurement, I can measure the total length of the bullet seater die and use that measurement to add or take away in thousandths of an inch.
The best part is that the loaded rounds check out to always less than .002" runout and most are .001" or less.
Pretty darn good for $27.xx at Midway.

[ 08-02-2003, 21:34: Message edited by: Bobby ]

I'll second the Forester dies. I purchased a set in .300 Weatherby Magnum and they work very well. They are well worth the cost in my opinion. Bill T.

Motion approved. I use the Forster B/R dies for my .22-250.

Thanks for your input.

The reason for the post was that I have recently heard of a long range competition at a range in the north of England that is held at Easter and culminates in a 500 yard egg shoot.

I can get the Sendero to clover leaf at 100 yards with 140 grn Ballistic Tips and Reloader 22 but I'm not sure how that will translate at 500 yards. I think the best thing to do is to turn up at the next opportunity and have a go with the normal ammunition and then take a view as to how to improve the load if necessary.

Overall, it sounds like some improvement could be made by changing die sets which concurs with advice I obtained yesterday from one of Englands foremeost reloading equipment suppliers. However, he also suggested as a first step that I might want to try neck turning the cases. Do any of you have any thoughts on that? Although I like to think I'm reasonably thorough in case preparation I don't do as far as neck turning. As far as the Forster dies go I'm not sure they are available in England. I think I may have to go the Redding route.

Thanks for your advice and input.

Tim

Tim, I wouldn't bother with neck turning, as that is best left to those with custom cut chambers. A custom chamber would be cut at (probably) minimum specifications. That would dictate that one pay more attention to case prep.

However, I would check my case necks for concentricity. Most concentricity errors are induced by the decap/expander ball as well as what is inherent to the die itself.

I'll preface this by saying I'm not a long range shooter by any means, but isn't a 140 grain bullet on the light side when shooting 500 yards??
I would think something on the order of the 168 grain matchking to be more in order.

Not sure if this is the case for 7mm Redding sizing dies, but my 338-06AI sizer has a very tapered inside neck button that slides out quite slick. Doesn't jerk around the neck at all. The 'button' part is 1\2inch long.

Food for thought, Tim.

[ 08-06-2003, 03:09: Message edited by: onefunzr2 ]

It seems that several have given excellent advice. Concentricity is one of the two key ingredients; the other is neck tension. Thats why the local rep said to turn your necks. But; that is an expensive alternative as to get the full advantage of turned necks a set of bushing dies will also be necessary. In my experience; if your rounds are concentric; then for a 500 yard egg shoot go up to a Sierra 168 or possibly 180 HPBT and RL22 or VIT-165. ( Your rifle will tell you which it likes ). Get the seating depth right at the lands for each one. Then play a little into or a little off at 100 yards IN STILL AIR. Get your load tuned for powder and seating depth to get the smallest group. Then get a really good set of wind tables built for that bullet at whatever the muzzle velocity is. Now beg, borrow, make or steal some sort of wind flags and get a wind guage. Then; my boy; put an target at 500 yards and learn to read the wind. All that to smack an egg. The other alternative would to be to fly to the US and spend a week in a good prairie dog town with about 1,000 rounds of preloaded ammo.

[ 08-06-2003, 03:47: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]