I've been working up a Coyote load for my Rem 700 Mtn LSS 7mm-08 using Sierra 100 Grn HP's and RE15. When shooting the work up loads a couple of weeks ago it was a bit windy. Even so, I only had two 3 shot groups that went over 1" (just barely) @ 100 Yds and the rest were in the .5"-.8" range. I left that day thinking this combo definitely had potential.

Today the wind was a good bit calmer, but my first three groups were just terrible. 1.94", 1.296" and then a wopping 2.153". I'm thinking "what the heck went wrong here?". I couldn't blame it on the load because I had done mutch better with it the first time out and that was "in the wind". So, the only thing left to blame was.......me!

With that in mind, I really tried to settle down and started focusing on technique. The rest of the groups came in as follows: 0.788", 0.678", 0.415".....(steadily improving)....and the last two groups came in at 0.242" and 0.345". These are the two best groups I have ever shot with this rifle.

I only had time to shoot one group at 200Yds and it came in at 1.685".

Got to tell ya.....I'm pumped!!!...... ......Coyotes beware!!!!!

Here's a pic:

firstshot
------------------------------------
Make your first shot count!

Your experience is perfect testimony as to why we shouldn't base our decisions on just a group or two. We, the shooters, can have an off day, and the groups can suffer.

Looks like the coyotes in your area should be worried...

First Shot, good work!

I've got to be devil's advocate though, and ask a couple ?'s. Did you clean the barrel between the first successful shoot and the poor groups at first this time around? Also, was there any differential between the first groups this time and the better ones, i.e. cleaning of the barrel, or not, or a cooling off period {for the gun} between the first groups and the second.

I agree with Bobby, the shooter is usually the prime factor in shooting well, I have just seen some factors that impact rifle performance significantly.

I have a friend who will not shoot the coated NBT's or other Win Supreme ammo with the coated pills, because it takes quite a few rounds for the rifle to 'settle down' after a cleaning to bare metal in the bore. He has a few rifles where this is also the case with standard copper or copper plated bullets as well, he is one of those who shoots his rifle till it is shooting well, and then leaves it with an 'accurate fouled bore' and doesn't clean it again until the end of the hunting season, or a long period in which he won't shoot that rig (8 weeks or more).

Hope it's just you getting dialed in to your rig, and those little groups are the order of the day from now on--just a little food for thought.

Regards--Don

Bobby
You are absolutely right about basing decisions on just a group or two! I always get a chuckle when I see guys at the range "chasing the groups" and adjusting their scope after every group and sometimes after every shot...LOL

Yep, got to help my hunting partner get his 243 sighted in and then "look out Yotes".

Don
Thanks Don. In the past, I was one of those that cleaned thouroughly after each time I took a rifle / or shotgun out and shot it. That's just the way my Daddy taught me. In the past year or so I've kind of gotten away from that due also experiencing the need for "quite a few rounds for the rifle to settle down". Now I'm kind of like your buddy and will not clean unless I plan to change loads OR the rifle will not be shot for a couple of months or so.

In this particular case, no, the rifle was not cleaned after the last outting. I also didn't clean between the first few "poor" groups and the latter "good" groups.

As you probably know, the Rem 700 Mtn LSS has one of those skinny pencil sized barrels that tends to heat up quickly, and yes it does need a "cooling of period" to shoot consistent tight groups. If it gets too hot, the groups will open up about a half inch more than if you keep the barrel cool.

When shooting for groups, I always wait at least 3 timed minutes between shots. That way, the barrel stays cool and it also gives me just enough time between shots to "think through" the last shot, record the velocity in my log book (when I'm using the Chrono), and to relax and get focused for the next shot. There was no variation in this routine between the "poor" and "good" goups.

No....The only significant variable at play was Me! Luckily, I knew it was me.

I will say one thing though. I thought I knew this rifle prety well. To date, I would have been perfectly happy with 3/4" groups at 100 Yds. Sure, I've had the occasional half-incher, but for the most part it's been a 3/4"-1" shooter. At least I thought it was!...LOL Now I'm seeing that it may be possible to shoot sub 1/2" groups with this rifle. I'll obviously shoot some more groups with this load to make sure this wasn't just some kind of fluke.....but I've got a sneekin suspicion that I'm going to wind up doing some more load work on some of my other "tried & true" loads.

firstshot
----------------------------
Make your first shot count!

Hey FS, Congratulations on realizing the problem can often be the person Yanking the trigger. The more Trigger Time you get, the more obvious it becomes.

quote:

Originally posted by First Shot:
...In the past, I was one of those that cleaned thouroughly after each time I took a rifle / or shotgun out and shot it. That's just the way my Daddy taught me. ...

I'm with your Dad on this issue. After you end up with a Pitted barrel or two, you will be able to think back and realize your Dad was giving you an excellent education in how a rifle should be cared for.

Hot Core

You and "Dad" are probably right; however, I do wipe them down after every outting, but don't clean the bore unless I'm going to be shooting a different load next time out and that is more often than not. I've only had this rifle about a year now and am still doing a good bit of load tuning. I'll probably be doing a lot more tuning to see if this thig really is a 1/2" or less shooter. At any rate, she gets a good bore cleaning often enough that I'm not worried about ending up with a pitted barrel.

Thanks for the caution though!

firstshot
------------------------------
Make your first shot count!

I wonder if barrel temperature has anything to do with your group size.

Sounds like it might.


Dan

quote:

Originally posted by DanM:
I wonder if barrel temperature has anything to do with your group size.

Sounds like it might.

Dan

It definitely does! See my response to Don above. If the barrel heats up too much my groups open up. That's why I let it cool between shots when I'm shooting for groups.

firstshot
------------------------------
Make your first shot count!

First shot, well done! I think you have crossed a threshold and become a serious shooter. You learned a valuable lesson in shooting: Technique and consistancy make all the difference. Enjoy this new power.

"March maybe, don`t believe April. April`s a green and muddy month down below. Some folks like it, farmers mostly"...Love that movie! Sold my 7-08 mtn Lss because the shots just walked around too much with near max loads and 139 gr. pills I wanted to use for deer. Light loads shot very well, usually MOA. I replaced it with a 700 Light Varmint in 7-08 and couldn`t be happier. Not as pretty but just as light and very accurate with max loads.