I want to try TC .50 cal muzzleloader sabots in .500 S&W. It has been already done many times, but in rifles without muzzle brake. I have 7.5" S&W Performance Center revolver with muzzle brake. I want to try i for .45 cal bullets and small bird shots.

How fast will sabot open? Is it safe to use with muzzle brake?

Sabots:


Jiri

Please report your results.

Yes, please go first and let us know.

What opens sabots? Air resistance. When does the sabot meet air resistance?
We use discarding sabots in tank cannons with muzzle brakes (the modified M68 on the Striker)
What does all this mean? I haven't a clue. But I would definitely try it.

I say go one at a time and watch the results carefully. The tank sabot example is a data point...whether it's an apples-to-apples comparison...beats me.

For the first, I just tried empty sabot with the most powerful primer I have, Federal GM215M. It didn't open. I will go from low velocity loads up and see what happen. Will simulate loads in QuickLoad.

What to use for bird shot cover? Some piece of plastic, cardboard or gascheck?

Jiri

Glue on a disk of thin cardboard.

Why glue? To make it stronger?

Project update:

It will hold 160 grain of trap shots, estimated muzzle velocity from subsonic range to about 1800 fps.

Will start low with VV N32C "cowboy" powder.

Made my own sabot seating die for that (except Forster ring):

Ok how big is the cardboard and how far from the muzzle.

Distance is about 4 to 5 yards and cardboard is about 20" side to side.

I know it is not good pattern. I have to try smaller shots.
But it is just the beginning. Next time, I will use plastics shot cover instead of brass one.

Jiri

What is your over shot wad? They need to be thin and light; like a piece of thin cardboard, like an index card, glued in place. The glue is just to keep it from falling out.
What are you going to shoot? Do you have snakes there? Quail? Rabbits?
Don't expect a great pattern from a rifled barrel; it tends to spread the shot out. And you can't have a pistol with a smooth barrel; not here anyway.

Over shot wad lathe turned from brass. I cant' find 1/2" punch here, so have to make by myself. Also will use #9 shot instead of #7.

I just try this for fun. No real use for this here.

Jiri

Jiri, how did this turn out for you?

(I have the exact same revolver)

A few drops of wax over shot charge & you'll be ready to rock & roll.

FYI-
Sabots w/pistol projo's travel approximately 10-15 yards/meters when fired from a 26" mzl loader Bbl.

I think you well be better off with a thin card board wad also. Seal it with clue or wax.

the brass disk look cool!

you can take a case and use it as a cutter,and make your own wads -- solder a handle on the side, cutoff the bottom of the case above the web, and use like a cookie cutter on a 2-3mm foam pad ... and a couple drops of wax after a very light case mouth crimp on loaded cases-- the crimp to give some mechanical purchase to hold

on the brake and sabots -- check every shot for barrel obstructions -- you'll have at least some shavings in the air,

When I was a kid I loaded some .44-40 shotshells for an old timer to use in his Colt SAA. I used a thin cardboard over-shot wad and a heavy roll crimp to hold in place. He told me they worked great on the rattlesnakes in his garden.
C.G.B.

It works good so far. I just use it for fun purposes on shooting range.

I don't believe that cardboard wad will hold under the recoil of full load, if loaded mixed loads in the cylinder (regular+shotshells).

So far no problems with sabots and muzzle brake.

My load is 8 grains of VV N32C, TC sabot, 160 gr of "trap" or "skeet" shots and brass overwad. I didn't chronograph it (I don't believe it can be done), but estimated velocity is ~1000 fps (subsonic).

Now, I am thinking about putting two 200gr .45 bullets into sabot and check for "group". Also subsonic. Just for fun.

On the other hand, I load this:



Jiri

Another idea is to load 10 disks or what will fit into the case and check for pattern.

That purple bullets (plastic coated 406 gr hard cast) I load with 3 different powders for 3 different power levels. Even subsonic load is 44 mag power level. So I will try this 250gr .45 bullet loaded in sabot, I want duplucate .45 ACP power/velicity:

Very interesting stuff your doing thanks for the pictures and information.

p dog shooter:

You are welcome. Will keep posting results.

BTW brass bullets in handguns are OK in my country (law says here that bullet or its parts must not be more than 250 HB hard, these are 130 HB), but can be problematic in some states in USA (can be called AP). Just for explanation.

Jiri

If you can make brass overshot wads you should be able to make a wad punch. Drill a hole the correct diameter in a piece of steel. Turn the side down to get reasonably thin walls. Taper the punch end to a sharp edge and burnish. Put it on some card stock on a piece of wood and wack it with a hammer. Use a rod to punch the wads out and load.

Very interesting! Tell us more about those purple bullets.

Have you done any penetration testing with those four types of bullets?

Jerry:

Sure I can. I can make it from tool steel, such as O2 and heat treat too. I was just lazy ;-)

Kenati:

Purple bullets are HC bullets made in Slovakia. Bullets are coated with some type of "plastics" with high temp lubricant. If you order 2 000 or more, you can choose color, otherwise you get what they do right now.

Brand is "Ares". That 406gr coated are about 0.2 USD each.

I load them for 1060 fps, ~1400 fps and 1600 fps. No leading, very good bullets. Most IPSC shooters use it (not in .500 ;-) )

I tested 350gr Lehigh Match against 10 mm thick (0.4") "construction" or "mild" steel. It didn't penetrate.






I missed first shot. All reloads shoot very well to the center horizontally, but vertically there is big difference.

Jiri

I'm more interested in your Labradar....
How do you like it? PM me if you don't want to clutter up this thread.
Thanks.

vlwtx348:

So far so good. With "standard chrony" and .500 S&W, minimum distance from muzzle to chrony was 7 meters or yards, better 10, otherwise it didn't measure (flash and muzzle blast). With Labradar, it just work. There are some minor issues, but all can be easy solved (you have to change from pistol range to rifle range some times, remove batteries for storage etc.).

If you want to discuss that, there are many chrony related threads out there, just post a link here and I will be much more precise about that there.

Jiri

I have sabots for a .40 caliber bullet in a .50 barrel. They (I think) make 'em for a .357 bullet in a .45 or .50 barrel also. Or maybe you use a .357 bullet in a .45 sabot in a .50 sabot. I like the sabot for shot idea. I'd never thought about that.

God Bless, Louis

quote:

They (I think) make 'em for a .357 bullet in a .45 or .50 barrel also

I have a bunch of them I used to use in a 458 cal. muzzle loader.

I have been meaning to try them in my 45-70 but just haven't go around to it.

Having three 357 carbines has a lot to do with.

If I want to shoot .357 cal. bullets.