I am not a reloader, so take the following questions with that in mind. I do have a friend who reloads, however, and I am curious if he can load me a special 7mm-08 load that is extremely light in recoil.

I have an 11 year old son that has only shot .22 so far. He wants to hunt deer next year, and I've bought him a youth model 7mm-08 Remington rifle. I've shot both 120 and 140 grain Remington factory ammo, and while the 120-grain has less recoil than the 140, I'm still thinking it has too much for my son's first shots.

Note that I'm talking only about target practice, not hunting. He will use standard ammo for hunting, as I've found that recoil is not really noticed when in a hunting situation. I want him to practice quite a bit before next fall, and I am wondering if a special hand-load could be devised for the initial practice sessions to get him used to some recoil before moving up to the factory loads.

I see that there are 100 and 110 grain 7mm bullets available. Can these be used in the 7mm-08? If not, can the powder load be reduced using the 120 grain bullet for less recoil?

In the same vein, I want to get him going with a 20-gauge pump shotgun (also a youth model). Can lighter hand-load 20-gauge shells be loaded? It's a pump, so cycling is not a factor. What is the lightest-recoil factory 20-gauge ammo?

I'm not sure & just guessing here, but I used to load up some 308 loads for an old girlfriend of mine using IMR SR 4759. It is a bulky powder meant for reduced loads. Seeing that the 308 and 7mm-08 share the same case, I bet you could find a load for it.

Otherwise, I'd think that any bottom-end "starting" load from the manuals, pushing a 120 grain bullet, would be very manageable. I use an "average" charge of Varget behind 140's in mine, and it is very pleasant to shoot.

BTW, I see it's your first post here.

Welcome to AR.com, and thanks for taking your son hunting!

There is a law that says we cannot sell handloads without a manufacurers lic. Perhaps your friend will let you load the ammo under his supervision of course. Hate to tell you this as your on the right track by starting light.

Sierra makes a 100 gr varmint bullet that will kick even less. So load some of them up. Varmint hunting is way more fun for a kid anyway as the weather is much better, you don't have to get up as early nor stay as long. More shots are fired as well.

There are plenty of fast burning powders that will work and some of the medium ones as well. Hodgdon has "youth loads" at their site.

Remington has just announced some very light loads for popular rifle cartridges. I only saw the 30-06 and a couple of others listed. I don't think they will ever get to the less popular 7-08?

When the loads are first tried check the bore after the first shot to make sure the bullet did not stick in there. Watch out for double charges as well while loading.

This may seem like a lot of trouble but it's going to be worth it.

There must be some 20 ga target load but it's going to kick pretty good. The ones with the lowest drams of powder and shot should be the lightest kicking.

Cold Bore; I was trying to work up a light load in .308 Win for my wife shortly before hunting season opened!

You can't interchange "all" powders between 7mm-08 and 308,I proved that to myself!

I wanted to use Accurate Arms Magnum Rifle Powder (MRP) (3100) and found out that it works in the 7mm-08, but not in the 308!

I use 45.0 grains behind a 139 grain Hornady spire point in the 7mm-08, works fine and burns clean!

I tried everything from 45 down to 40 grains behind a 130 grain Hornady spire point in the 308!

The above powder charges worked fine in the 7mm-08, but always left a streak of unburned powder granuals in the brass and the full length of the barrel in the .308 Win!



I know that there isn't much difference between .284 and .308 inches, but it must be enough so that this powder doesn't interchange!



NOTE: Both rifles are Remington M-7's with 18 inch barrels.

When i 1st got my 708 i developed a load that was very light recoil but very accurate up to 100/150yrds
Hornady 139Gr interlocks
44Gr H414
Mag primers
Giving aprox 2550fps
GIVE IT A GO AND SEE WHAT YOU THINK.
Let me know how you get on tikka7mm08@aol.com

Savage;
The "is" a law that says we can't reload "for sale"!
HOWEVER, There is no law that says we can't assemble someone else's components for them!
The catch is, the customer, friend, etc. must provide the components!

If your reloading friend is equipped to load 7-08 and is willing, there is no reason that he cannot load some ammunition that is significantly lower in recoil than factory ammo. So long as you pay for the components and he charges nothing for the service, neither of you have violated any laws, either real ones or imagined. You should, however, make sure your friend is thoroughly familiar with reloading and has worked with reduced loads before. He should have your rifle in his possession when loading for it to assure proper chambering, etc., and if he is anything like me, he will want to test fire any loads he creates in your rifle before turning them over to you.

Your instinct to use the lightest bullet available is on the right track. As someone advised, simply use the lightest "starting" load that you can find in a manual with one of the faster-burning powders. This should get the recoil down to a manageable level. Also make sure that your son has fully adequate ear protection when firing the rifle. Not only is this essential for his health and well-being, novice shooters often find the gun's report more intimidating than its recoil.

As to 20 gauge loads, this is a little more specialized area, but an experienced handloader can do it. As an alternative, Walmart sells some cheapie 20 gauge shells loaded by Winchester with only 3/4 oz of shot. They are pretty low in recoil.

Here are some loads I looked up just for light recoil.

7mm-08 Remington
110gr Speer TNT Hollow Point
39.0 grn of H335* (* denotes use of CCI magnum primer)
1727ft lbs at 2659fps.
Recoil should be approx. 12 lbs.

7mm-08 Remington
120gr Spizter Hot Cor
37.0 gr of H4895
1915ft lbs of energy at 2681 fps
Approx. recoil 13lbs.

7mm-08 Remington
120 Nosler Solid Base
43.0 gr of IMR4350
1857ft lbs at 2640fps
Appox. recoil 14lbs

Savage99 and Stonecreek both gave excellent advice here.

Light loads with fast powders have less muzzle blast, tend to be quieter, and have less recoil. Load the 100gr Sierra or 110gr Speer with 41.0gr of IMR3031. One of them may turn out to be quite accurate in that rifle.

To acclimate a new shooter to recoil, stay away from the bench as much as possible. Bench shooting will eventually become necessary, but start out with offhand shooting only. Recoil is less of an issue, and plinking is the most fun way get comfortable with a new firearm, especially under conditions he's more likely to encounter while hunting. I would also recommend starting with only one cartridge in the rifle at a time to teach the value of shot placement.

As for the low recoil 20ga, look for 2 3/4 shells with a dram equivalent of 2 1/2, and 3/4 ounces of shot.

I worked up some light loads for my wife's M7, using light (34 - 38 grain) charges of IMR and H4895, 130 Speer spitzers and 140 C-T Ballistic Silvertips. Accurate and low recoil.

Go to Hodgdon's site and look at the "youth loads" section. Some of those loads are just amazingly accurate. A guy at another forum was looking for some light loads for his son's 260, and I did some workups using Hodgdon's "60% rule" for 4895 and 120 B-Tips - got groups well under 1" and negligible recoil. No reason these light loads wouldn't work great on deer, either.

R-WEST

My 11 year old is shooting a 120 gr. Speer Hot Core behind 40.5 grains of IMR 4064. It has an MV of 2562 fps out of a 20 inch barrel, ME of 1733 ft. lbs., and is very accurate and consistent. Recoil is mild. It should still have 961 ft. lbs. at 300 yards, so there is no reason to change loads to hunt. The eye relief on the scope is set up for winter clothes, and he wears a PAST recoil shield from the bench, which reduces recoil further.



He also shoots a 20 gauge youth model, and that one has more recoil than his 7-08 shooting the above load. We haven't tried reloading for that one.

Lyman's 47th:

7-08, 135 gr. cast lead, 2.6" OAL 15.3-23.5 gr SR4759 runs 1539-2189 fps. Universal Rec'v, 24" barrel

Hodgdon BRM 2002:
20 Ga. 23/4" Rem RXP, Premier & STS hulls, CCI209M primer, International Clays powder: 12.2gr/1150 fps 13.0 gr/1200 fps w/ 3/4 oz shot and PC20 wad.

deanbrew,

Some time ago, a 'standard light load' for most (all ?) of the 308 family was a light bullet with 12 grains of red dot.


I have used 700X (which is very similar to red dot) in many light loads (mostly .223, 280 and 30-06) and find it to work very well.

In general, I end up with about 1/4 of the max weight of powder (ie 14 grains for .280 and 30-06), 1/4 the max energy (that's 1/2 the max velocity).

My loads came from the '45th edition lyman manual' (cast bullet loads) and it also lists many loads for the .308 but is to old to include the 7mm-08. Sorry. The .308 is from 9 grains of 700x to 12.5 grains for a 120 grains lead bullet.

Checking a newer lyman manual should give all the loads you could wish for.

JerryO

Thank you, guys!

As a non-loader, much of what you recommended is Greek to me, but you've confirmed that light loads can indeed be created that should serve me and my son well. I was mostly wanting to find out if what I was thinking was even possible.

I plan on printing out this thread and taking it to my friend. He has the manuals and experience and will no doubt want to decide for himself, but at least this data will give him a starting point.

I guess I see why handloading is popular. It gives a shooter so much more flexibility than what's available in the store. There are really only a couple of factory loads available for 7mm-08 from only a few manufacturers.

I also appreciate the advice about shooting offhand to start. Although accuracy is obviously better shooting off of bags on the bench, I've noticed that the perceived recoil is much more noticeable than shooting offhand.

Somewhere on Hodgdon's site http://hodgdon.com/ there's a section listing low-recoil "youth" loads specifically.

I believe it's Remington that I read had recently come out with reduced-recoil factory loads, as well.