Jerry Eden Posted 27 July 2010 16:47
Hot Core:

I know we have had our differences, especially about the 270, Blue Dot, and elk hunting. I want you to know, I am not happy with the way I have discussed you and your opinions, and I think we should forget all this crap, and get on with enjoying Accurate Reloading. I just wanted to let you know, I think this has gone too far,and some of the guys, for whatever reason, have been too caustic in regards to their opinions.

Regards

Jerry

NRA Endowment Life Member
Location: Mesa arizona | Registered: 29 August 2003 IP

Hot Core Posted 27 July 2010 17:24 Hide Post
I'm all for it. We do not have to agree on everything related to Hunting and Reloading. I appreciate you extending the offer and will do my best to keep from disappointing your good will.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.
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Hey Jerry, I did respond and I have no idea why you can not see it. I realize it is against the normally accepted protocol to display "PMs", but you should be able to see my response and when I made it.

If Jerry can't see this, I'd appreciate it if one of you fine folks would copy my response to him.
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Hey Woods, It is the never improved upon, always reliable, never fail, relatively inexpensive, time proven, 100% repeatable, calibrateable, no guessed at dimensions, no dangling wires, no glued on strain gauge fiasco - CHE & PRE. Looks like you could remember something that simple!

Hmmmmmmmmm.....

!Muy interesante!

A slight attitude adjustment is sufficient for me. But I do thank you for the post.

Welcome back to the family. You DO have a lot to contribute here worded well.

Rich
DRSS

Hot Core, I did get your response, and I posted you had responded to me on the other thread in this page.

Jerry

Good. Glad it is behind us. Now I need to convince you about getting a "good" cartridge!

I'd recommend starting with a 22 Hornet, it will test your re-loading skills.

I recommend an outstanding caliber...the 270 Win.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
I recommend an outstanding caliber...the 270 Win.

only if it is a scout. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
I recommend an outstanding caliber...the 270 Win.

only if it is a scout. roger

a scout that can do it all!

quote:

Originally posted by greenjoy:
I'd recommend starting with a 22 Hornet, it will test your re-loading skills.

22Hornets Tested my skills and LOTS of Patience for 35 years. I finally said that was long enough for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
I recommend an outstanding caliber...the 270 Win.

Hey Doc,It would be nice to see Jerry use something in addition to your recommendation of a Coyote Caliber(as Mr. Keith used to say). Perhaps something with a bit Larger Bore.
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Do they still make International-Harvester "Scouts"?

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by greenjoy:
I'd recommend starting with a 22 Hornet, it will test your re-loading skills.

22Hornets Tested my skills and LOTS of Patience for 35 years. I finally said that was long enough for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
I recommend an outstanding caliber...the 270 Win.

Hey Doc,It would be nice to see Jerry use something in addition to your recommendation of a Coyote Caliber(as Mr. Keith used to say). Perhaps something with a bit Larger Bore.
-----

Do they still make International-Harvester "Scouts"?

Does he not use anything larger?

Don't know. We will have to wait and see what Jerry has. He is apparently Killing things totally Dead with his 270Win though, which will make convincing him to use something BIGGER a challenge.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Don't know. We will have to wait and see what Jerry has. He is apparently Killing things totally Dead with his 270Win though, which will make convincing him to use something BIGGER a challenge.

It's always fascinating when someone argues with success!

Hey Hot Core, You drive to SEMO and I will drive the rest of the way to NM so you can kill you an elk this winter....

I have two .270's I'll loan you one.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Hey Hot Core, You drive to SEMO and I will drive the rest of the way to NM so you can kill you an elk this winter....

I have two .270's I'll loan you one.

WOW! Sounds like a great offer from where I sit. roger

It is a GREAT offer of a fine Hunt - Thanks Ted.

One of these days I'll have all this stuff I'm doing right now caught up and then you guys making those offers better have your Skinning Knives ALL sharpened up.

And if I'm FORCED into using a 270Win, I'll try to locate 20-25 good Hounds so we can eventually locate the Game before the meat spoils.
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Is it "true" the current 270Win loads shoot so level that there is nothing but a totally Flat Trajectory for over a couple of miles(as some imply), Kill like a Lightning Bolt and have negative Recoil???

I guess the thing that concerns me the most is having to take a Head Shot(if I can't get the Hounds) with a 270Win at a Full Gallop through the fallen timber. Will the 270Win still make a clean Kill at 2-miles if I accidentally miss the Ear Canal-to-Ear Canal alignment by 1/4" under those conditions??? The problem is I'm just not used to using a 4x scope!

Seems the more things change.....the more they stay the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Will the 270Win still make a clean Kill at 2-miles if I accidentally miss the Ear Canal-to-Ear Canal alignment by 1/4" under those conditions???

Yes, it will do just that. It's the shooter that makes the difference.

This is too funny, LOL!! I have been in the White mountains of Arizona for the last couple of days, with my lovely lady, and a couple of great friends. Iam SOO GLAD YOU MISSED ME!!!

Hot Core, I am very dissapointed in you, what kind of reloader gives up on a cartridge after 35 years. Why to hear you tell it, if you can't do it it can't be done!! Oh, by the way, I have a Hornet, that shoots under 1", a 1941 Model 23 Savage, and with Lil Gun and 35 grain V Max's, piece of cake.

270 winchester, been shooting one for over 40 years, and with the exception of Bears and moose, I have shoot all the rest of the game you can name, with great success.

Larger calibers, 35 Whelen, and 375 H&H take care of everything else, although I do have a plethora, of 30-06's as well.

Doc, you are a wise man, and I appreciate your choice of the 270.

Jerry

quote:

Is it "true" the current 270Win loads shoot so level that there is nothing but a totally Flat Trajectory for over a couple of miles(as some imply), Kill like a Lightning Bolt and have negative Recoil???

Very true! Due to the curvature of the earth, the 270 bullets usualy wind up in outer space instead of hittng the ground. One must always be aware of what's behind one's target, but especially so with the 270.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Doc, you are a wise man, and I appreciate your choice of the 270.

Jerry

It's my favorite caliber. Any hunt I go on when deciding what to take, it's always a 270 versus something else. Or a 270 and a back-up rifle.

However, that could change a little now because I have a new 6.5x284 and new 7mm Rem Mag, neither which I've shot yet at all. But when one of your 270s groups 0.137 for 3 shots at 100 and 0.460 with a featherweight bbl on it, it's hard not to take that rifle on a hunt.

I have heard that a bullet fired from a .270Win will never hit the ground. Some rounds are simply amazing!

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
I have heard that a bullet fired from a .270Win will never hit the ground. Some rounds are simply amazing!

Yeah - If you miss your target with a .270 then you'd better not still be in the same place about 12 hours later or you'll get hit from behind.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Hot Core, I am very dissapointed in you, what kind of reloader gives up on a cartridge after 35 years. Why to hear you tell it, if you can't do it it can't be done!! Oh, by the way, I have a Hornet, that shoots under 1", a 1941 Model 23 Savage, and with Lil Gun and 35 grain V Max's, piece of cake. ...

I know, a Pitiful QUITTER!!!

I had a few 22Hornet M43 Wins and the last one was a Thompson/Center Contender Carbine. This was all long before Lil'Gun and 35gr V-Max Bullets. Every time I see you all mention that Powder and Bullet combination, it always makes me wonder if the new owners have tried that in them and how they are doing.

Ended up with a S&S 20" 223Rem M7 which has me really spoiled. Very consistent and even likes the (previously reasonably priced) 50gr Rem PLHPs.

If only our leaders had the ability to reason, think it out and do the right thing!

I told you we could all get along!

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
I have heard that a bullet fired from a .270Win will never hit the ground. Some rounds are simply amazing!

You've been reading wymple's posts I see!

I was pondering the 270Win overnight. Got to thinking if I could just locate a "good" (as new condition - never fired) Pre-64 M70 270Win 24" medium weight barrel with the extra screw in the middle of the barrel and the stock cut for the irons or a Pre-WW2 Mouser 270Win - I might just have to get one. And use lots of RL-22 Powder in it.


NOT!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
I was pondering the 270Win overnight. Got to thinking if I could just locate a "good" (as new condition - never fired) Pre-64 M70 270Win 24" medium weight barrel with the extra screw in the middle of the barrel and the stock cut for the irons or a Pre-WW2 Mouser 270Win - I might just have to get one. And use lots of RL-22 Powder in it.NOT!!!

You need more than one screw in the middle of the barrel to mount a scope. roger

Good point Roger, In fact, the Screw I was referencing screws into a Holder on the Bottom of the barrel about 1/2 way between the Receiver and the Muzzle. Huuumm, probably the best place to mount the Scout Scope - on the bottom of the Forearm.

Like I said....the more things stay the same.

Hey Ted, It is being said "nicely"!

Yo HC, if you went on a paid outfitted hunt somewhere, say a blackbear, mule deer, elk combo and your rifle didn't show up along with the rest of your luggage, and wouldn't for another day or so, and circumstances were such that you and the guide needed to get moving out of camp, and offered you his 270 with Federal factory 150 partition ammo (stating that's all he ever used on game), would you decline? I'm just curious.

I have some 270s that I know will work on elk but not my first choice. It's why I have 7mag, .06, and 300 RUM. Personally, if I were in the above situation, I wouldn't hesitate to get the hunt going. BUT, I also admit that I would have concern looming because of the hype over the 270s capabilities with bigger animals. I've never killed an elk with a 270.

Doc: Have no worries, I have killed three elk with the 270, the biggest over 900lbs. All bang flops. My sons, a couple apiece. If you can place a bullet, and I know you can, you're ok. 150 Nosler Partitions, might be too much, as they always pass thru, if placed in the right spot, and shot at realistic ranges. Now the same thing can be said of the 06,with 180 Partitions, and just about any decent bullet in the 35 Whelen. Just as another example of elk hunting,guys are shooting them with Bow and Arrow, and nobody howls about that. Maybe because the elk is expected to run with an arrow stuck in him. Here again, it is all about shot placement. While I am not a bow hunter, my son Steve is, and I will be with him in September, while he shoots his archery elk.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
I have heard that a bullet fired from a .270Win will never hit the ground. Some rounds are simply amazing!

the other day, i was driving along and saw a very nice pronghorn buck. in my mind i pictured my .308 sitting at home and suddenly the buck dropped DRT to the ground.

Hey Doc, Interesting situation. I've already passed on a few Deer Hunts because of Firearm related issues. I'm not 100% sure what I'd do in all the situations you described - but I'd probably pass on any kind of "loaner" rifle.

Probably go on the Hunt without the Firearm and use a Camera. Or if the Camera didn't make it, I'd just tag along, make some 5 mile "mental 1-shot Kills" , do some Spotting and help the other guys with their Game Packing. And if one of them used the 270Win, then I'd help him with his Tracking!!!

For absolutely sure I'd pass on the 270Win for Elk. Too old and tired to have to cross more than 20 miles of mountains to catch up to one which was perfectly hit, but ignored the weenie Bullet.

I know the 270Win has a lot of supporters, but I've seen a whole bunch of folks using them that are simply afraid of rifles. They get something they believe won't have much Recoil(which is correct), but then still do not go out and practice with it(Booooo). Then when it is time for the Kill their Flinch nearly causes the need for a Full Body Cast(maybe a slight exageration). I'm always leary of a fellow who brings one in - until - I watch him shoot it.
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Some of the best parts of any Hunt is using your own Loads and firearms that get fine tuned and selected just for a specific Hunt. It just wouldn't be the same using a "loaner"(regardless of the caliber) for me.

well if I could get someone to take my micro video tape from my video camera and upload some of my hunts, you'll see what a weenie bullet will do on several head of game from me. No tracking necessary!

Aw, come on HC. You pay the cash to travel half-way around the world to hunt and you're gonna go into a pout and not hunt 'cause you ain't got your own shit..........

Client: "I'm sorry, I just ain't gonna hunt 'cause I don't have my CF DG rifle to shoot those antelope with....... "
PH: "that's okay, the meter is still ticking however. Can I have one of the staff fix you another drink?"

HC, Beeman is right! Oh course if you like fine Scotch, maybe you drink instead of shoot. As to the wennies shooting wennie bullets out of a 270, and then flinching, what'd you got to say about the guy who reads this thread, listens to YOU, goes out and buys a 338, or 300RUM, no experience needed, LOL! Who's gonna be closer, me thinks the guy with the 270. Take that!

Jerry-

Folks like HC who think a jug-sized case burning a gallon of powder behind a pound of lead is needed for an elk are obviously making up for some shortcoming -- or short something...

Either that, or he's one of those who think larger calibers can make up for his poor shooting skills. But put a .458 projectile with 4000 ft./lbs of energy through an elk's flank and you still have a wounded elk, no two ways about it.

For 13 years now, my little Contender carbine in 7mm Bullberry has continued to effectively account for quite a bit of game, from vermin and varmints through deer, exotics and dozens upon dozens of wild hogs, some of them rather large in size. Before that, I took plenty of game with HANDGUNS using everything from the .223, 6mm-.223, .257 JDJ, .250 Savage, 6.5 JDJ, 6.5x50R-Bellm, 6.5x.308, 7mmBR, .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum among others.

And in between, I developed a deep appreciation for the venerable 6.5x55 and used it in everything from single shots and unaltered military rifles to sporterized versions and a full custom as well. And I found that out to 300 yards, a 140 grain bullet at 2600-2700 MV killed as well as anything I'd ever used, including numbers that burned a good bit more powder and had the "magnum" label attached to them.

Accuracy and matching a bullet to both the game and the velocity window you're using it at are paramount to success in the field. Right now, my health has dashed any dreams of my chasing an elk out West. But if I could, I'd have no qualms using any of a number of cartridges, including the aforementioned 6.5x55, the .308 WCF, the 30-30 AI I am currently shooting in a 24" Contender barrel or -- lo' and behold -- that lowly .270 WCF that ol' HC is so adamant about when it comes to elk.

Heck, as much as he despises it use, he must have something credible to substantiate that argument, so perhaps we all should lend him an ear, right?

So how many elk does he have under his belt to have such a strong OPINION?

Oh, wait a minute...he has never, ever killed an elk at all...

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A 150 grain Accubond at 2577 fps MV from a 30-30 AI instantly dropped this hog at a lasered 280 yards. But maybe I needed a .460 Weatherby...



Perhaps I should have borrowed a .338 Win Mag for this shot:



And I obviously needed more gun for this buck as it still appears to have some life left in it, right???



A .257 diameter, 100 grain bullet at a paltry 2650 fps MV instantly dropping an aoudad at 190 yards??? No way...



And if that wasn't bad enough, gee, this catalina must have died from exposure or something as a miniscule 80 grain bullet at 2705 fps MV would inflict nothing but a case of the giggles at 230 yards...




And here's another sleeping piggie. It found its slumber after a lowly 120 grain bullet from a 7mm Bullberry at 2650 fps was fired through its heart and went on to completely penetrate the 353 pound slab of bacon:



This piggie must be enjoying a summer siesta and was unaware we were taking the photo. After all, a 129 grain bullet at the pedestrian speed of less than 2200 fps would have bounced off of its hide, right???



OK, a nice blackbuck at 260 yards with an 85 grain bullet at 2900+ fps from a .250 Savage in a pistol?!?!? No way!!! Maybe I borrowed this one from the taxidermy shop and posed with it. Heck, it certainly couldn't have been killed by something so lacking in the energy department, right?



And someone PLEASE tell this hog to wake up because it obviously could have only been stunned since the caliber of choice here was a .223 Rem in a 23" Contender :



Now will someone PLEASE, PLEASE hand me a bigger caliber so that I can kill this Texas game a little deader??? And DO NOT make it a wimpy little .270 WCF. After all, I think I read somewhere that it's only a coyote gun anyway...

Just can't turn it loose, huh, Bobby????