Charge Ave. Vel. E.S. S.D. Group
58g 2517 57.82 29.05 .833"
59g 2603 24.02 12.84 1.134
60g 2648 14.45 7.54 1.07
61g 2670 5.59 2.44 2+ inches
62g 2700 Chrony problem 1.597
62.5g 2749 69.67 29.46 1.396

Primers were flat at 62g and flat/cratered at 62,5 but the bolt was never hard to lift.
Just as a control I shot one group of my regular hunting load (59g H4350, 165g Sierra HPBT):

59g 2770 11.99 6.08 .591

So, from these results my conclusion is that this powder/bullet/rifle combo is not going to work. I'd really prefer to use the Hornady bullet so I guess I will start working on a load with the H4350. I also have to conclude that I have a "slow rifle". When I've taken the Sierra bullet over 2800fps the groups have opened up.

I look forward to everyone commenting on this. It's great to have an information network to bounce ideas off.

NoCAL

If you want velocity then try about 57 or so grs. of H414 and you will push 3000 with a 165 gr. bullet or my favorite load of IMR-4831 with 59 grs. Try 50 grs. of 4064. It will push 2900 pretty close and is normally very accurate.

All of the above is for a 30-06 so if your shooting a 308 or a 300 Win. then you need to give up re-loading.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Thanks for your recommendations. I've been advised a number of times to try H414. I'll give it a try.

Denton, Thanks for the advice but I kinda want to stick with 165 grain bullets.
NoCAL

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[This message has been edited by NoCAL (edited 04-30-2002).]

Here's my best performance load:

Powder: RL-22 63 grains
190 gr Sierra Matchking, moly coated
Case: Norma
Primer: CCI 250
Avg. velocity (10 shots): 2900 fps
Accuracy: Avg 5 shots @ 100 yards: .8
Barrel: 26" Douglas #7

No signs of pressure.

MM

RL-22, 63 grains
165gr Partition/Ballistic tip
3002 fps
24" Lilja barrel

MM

Something just doesn't sound right

If you're only getting 2770 out of 59 H4350/165 and 22" barrel, either you've got a REALLY slow 30-06, or a goofy chrony.

Have you ever checked velocity of factory loads through your 30-06? Generally, they're fairly close to the advertised numbers, especially Speer Nitrex or Federal Premium. If you're way low, try a different chrony, or, see if you can find another guy with a 30-06 to try the same factory loads and see what the numbers are. If they're BOTH low, I'd suspect the chrony.

R-WEST

PS - Ray, how is it possible to have over 5000 posts in less than 2 years? Don't you ever work?

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"the spotlight of truth will cause the cockroaches of deceit to run for cover every time"
Rush Limbaugh

[This message has been edited by R-WEST (edited 05-01-2002).]

NoCAL

[This message has been edited by NoCAL (edited 05-01-2002).]

Not sure, but part of the explanation might be the chamber size. A slightly larger chamber will reduce pressure, and hence muzzle velocity.

I've heard it claimed that some reloading data is based on very tight chambered barrels, which gives muzzle velocities and pressures on the high side, which tends to reduce loads a bit, and make the world safe for guys that happen to get a tight chambered gun.

[This message has been edited by MontanaMarine (edited 05-01-2002).]

NoCAL

6.5, A good suggestion. I alsways thought 4831 would be too slow but I'll give it a try too.

NoCAL

quote:

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Originally posted by 6.5 Guy:
4350 is slightly faster than Re19. A good choice to try next would be either Hodgdon or IMR 4831. Max is about 63-64 grains. Start lower and see where that powder can get you.

---

I load the 06 with 59 gr IMR 4831 with the Hdy 165 SP. My most accurate load. I don't clock it, so can't help you there. I must use a drop tube to get this much powder below the neck into neck sized only Norma cases, and then it is very close to "compressed". I can't imagine being able to get 63-64 grains in the case. Be careful.

Sounds like the chrony's okay. I'm thinking slow barrel, mainly because of that 59 4350/165/2770 FPS load. I have two 22" 30-06's - a HOWA 1500 that does 2830 avg @12' with 57.5 AA4350, and a Rem. 700 that gives 2870 with 58 H4350. Either one will go over 2900 with more powder, but, accuracy drops off. Then beemanbeme mentions getting 2784 with 57 grains in one of his rifles, so, even allowing for normal rifle-to-rifle variations, you should certainly be doing better than 2770 with 59.

See if you can scrounge up some factory ammo to try. If the velocity is way low, then you have a slow barrel. If the barrel is the culprit, there's not much you can do with it except use it for a tomato stake. I doubt R-P will do anything for you, so, if you like the gun enough, you'll have to pony up a number of $$ and get a new barrel. Most barrel makers can match the contour of your existing barrel, so you don't have a major re-bedding job.

A few things can cause a "slow" barrel:
1. An oversize chamber. I doubt that, because you mention the one load of R19 that flattened/cratered primers, so, the chamber pressure was obviously up there. But, that load still gave a low velocity reading. Which means that you might be dealing with:
2. A tight throat (causes the pressure signs) in conjunction with a few ten thousandths oversize bore, or a bore that's tapered, that is, grows larger from the chamber to the muzzle, or both. With the sloppiness that passes for QC nowadays at R-P (how about a barrel with no rifling at all in the final 6" before the muzzle that "somehow got past our QC people") this is not as uncommon as you might think. Remember, the VAST majority of rifle (or handgun for that matter) owners do not have access to a chronograph, so, they don't know how fast their bullets are going. I'd wager it's (slow barrel condition) more common than one might expect.

Re the 32 Sp'l. I have 0 experience with that one, but, a fair amount with the 30-30, so, all I can suggest is to try the 'half grain at a time increase' method. If it's a rear lockup lever action, it will generally show when you're getting close to max by scattering shots all over the place. I think I read one time that 3031 was used in factory loads for the 32 and 30-30. You might also break down a factory load and see what it contains. 3031's long skinny grains are pretty distinctive, although it may be a non-canister grade, so, you shouldn't load up on a grain per grain basis, but you'll have an idea.

Don't be too discouraged about the disparity of some of your loads vs what published data shows (except for that 30-06). Chronographs are real eye-openers, and really point up the differences between individual rifles. My pet 308 Win load, which, according to most data, should have been in the 2800 FPS range, actually was only turning up 2650 FPS. The load I'm using now is a few grains over book max, but perfectly safe (no primer pocket expansion after 4 or 5 loadings is a pretty good estimator) in my rifle, and generates around 2800 FPS. Of course, none of the deer taken with the original load seemed to notice.

Fascinating hobby, handloading.

R-WEST

[This message has been edited by R-WEST (edited 05-02-2002).]

NoCAL