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I am at the moment soaking a dozen .416 400 gr Barnes X bullets which have been moly coated by my friend in Mineral Turps will this remove the moly ?? | ||
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Throw the bullets in a case tumbler to get rid of the moly. ZM | |||
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Thanks Zeke, I will try that. | |||
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I've tumbled the CT moly coated pretty clean. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Why not just shoot them as-is? AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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well i tumbled them for a couple of hours and got the majority of it off. The reason I did not want to shoot them with moly on is I was told it was hard to get out of the barrel. I know the lubolux winchester uses is. | |||
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Ok, next question, why are you worried about getting moly out of the barrel? The fact that it fuses to the metal surfaces it's rubbed against is actually a good thing... And no, it doesn't "build up" in the boreatleast not the way many nay-sayers will try to say it does. AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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The moly is held in place by carnuba wax which disolves with ammonia. So does copper if you leave it on there. A good wipe with ammonia detergent and tumbling should get rid of it all. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Alan the nay-sayers also said it was bad for your barrel...............looks as though I am learning this is not the case  | |||
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Nay sayers in general will bitch moan and whine about anything that wasn't around when they started... IOW anything "new" and Moly dry lubricant is just too new to have gained acceptance. And instead of keeping an open mind many people can't see the possibilities... I think that one of the "issues" with moly is people following the old dictum that "the bore isn't clean until the patch is too" are bothered by blackened patches... a barrel with a layer of moly will blacken patches like you were dipping them into a bottle of ink.... as the loose surface layer of moly is washed away. this is disquieting to those people. Much of the "fouling" inside a barrel is unburned graphite from the coatings on the propellant granules, and on a patch graphite and moly are both black. Yes, I believe that moly is hard to get out of a barrel... But I regard that as a plus, because it'll tend to fill in micro- cracks and pores... and moly occupying those voids may prevent something else from getting in there... I know from rubbing machined pieces ofmetal together it's fairly easy to tell which one was coated with moly even after it's been carefully cleaned. the one that had moly still feels "slippery" when you rub it against another piece of metal. Moly is THE STUFF when it comes to lubricating industrial drive chains and planed surfaces that must be kept oil free... I'm not convinced it's the greatest thing for bullets and bores, but I'll comment that while it may do less good than some will believe the idea that it causes any harm is rediculous. so it will either work as claimed or do nothing, but more likely somewhere in between. In short I see no imaginable "down side" other than making it difficult to tell when your barrel is "clean" by the old "clean patch" standard. In the end it' s your rifle, your money, your time, I wouldn't necissarly run out and buy the stuff to moly coat bullets in my case tumbler or refuse to buy bullets because they either were or were not moly coated, but I certainl wouldn't waste time cleaning moly off of a bullet if I went out to buy a box of V-max's and all they had was moly coated ones. My bigger worries is that handling them makes my fingers dirty (though so do many other things I do, like eating Cheeze curls  and I tend to put little moly fingerprints everywhere... and the insides of my plastic cartridge boxes would likely get "dingy" looking, but after about the third of fourth time I drop fired cases into them mouth down that happens anyway... AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Thanks Alan ,there is still a little on them but I will elave it there and shoot them as is | |||
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Alan, Moly mixed w/ moisture causes acid which will corrode the surface of steel. If you shoot in a humid enviroment or take your firearms from cool temps in to hot temps, it can be harmful. Not to mention some rifles will not shoot worth a darn w/ it in the barrel. Reloader | |||
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Nice post Allan. I will disagree with that, simply because I've used it so long. It has extended the life of a few of my barrels way beyond where I expected them to remain accurate. I believe it was Precision Shooting magazine that had ads running by Walt Berger where each month the ad included the running Tally of Moly Coated bullets shot through his wife's BenchRest rifle - with no appreciable loss of accuracy. I don't remember the last count, but I do seem to remember it was near 5k the last time I saw it, and that was not the end of the Tally. PS also had a link to a NORMA Test Report where NORMA had been testing some kind of HOT 6.5mm cartridge with Moly Coated bullets. I do remember it was right at 10k - with no appreciable loss of accuracy. That was about the time I got into Moly coating my own bullets and have been very happy with it. That is a key phrase and true. For some reason a group of people decided that because Moly is a dry "lubricant" that they no longer needed to clean their barrels - and that is Full-of-Beans. You still need to clean a barrel when using Moly, but you do it differently than normal. And when the cleaning is done, it is also important to lightly Lube the Bore with a Moly Grease then pass a couple of dry patches through to remove the excess. Otherwise, not cleaning a Moly Coated bore will end up having "Pits" created by moisture, exactly the same as in a barrel where Moly is not used. --- I'll continue to use Moly until something better comes along. | |||
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It's the moisture that causes the problem, not the moly. Use oil for protection like you normally do and you won't have any problems with your barrel. I have also found that it isn't that tough to clean out of barrels. | |||
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Published some time back in the Shooters News:
That is not the only place I've read about the corrosion characteristics of Moly on steel. I actually saw some pictures of an experiment in one article where they took the steel from hot into cold and it pitted the surface much like that of glass etching in glass. Here in Louisiana it is very humid and when you take your guns from indoors where the air is cool to outdoors where the air is hot and humid, the steel will get water moisture all over it. In dryer climates it may be ok but, I think I'll pass. Reloader | |||
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It's a pity the writer of the article you are quoting has a poor understanding of chemistry You can take all the sulfur dioxide in the world and mix it with water and you'll never get sulfuric acid What you will get is Sulfurous (NOT "sulfuric") Acid, which is a much weaker acid. Also sulfur dioxide is a relatively volitile gas, so it "sticking around" in say..... a hot rifle barrel? It's like expecting residual isopropyl alcohol that is normally found in IMR propellants being found in a rifle barrel... Sulfur dioxide will actually evaporate out of mixtures with water given time, and the acid that is formed in an aqueous solution of SO2 is a very weak acid, it won't attack Iron to any measureable degree but will react with alkali metals like Aluminum, Magnesium etc... It also reacts with common carbonates (Like Calcium Carbonate, common chalk) and forms the more stable compound Calcium Sulfate (Gypsum) forming Sulfur Dioxide is that distinct "Burned Match" smell. To get Sulfuric Acid you need Hydrogen Sulfide (which smells like Rotten Eggs) Also water doesn't condense on HOT surfaces like on a rifle brought INSIDE a cool (presumably air-conditioned? and thus LESS humid) house. Condensation happens when you take COLD metal outside of it's cool dry enviornment outside where it may be hot and humid and THEN condensation CAN occour. the Cold object absorbs the heat of the vapor causing it to condense on that cold surface. this is why an iced drink (or a cold can of beer) "sweats". I can see the situation where someone published something that was simply wrong and people have been quoting and basing their beliefs on erroneous (FALSE!) data. If you want to get rid of Sulfur dioxide you simply need to heat the substance and the SO2 will be driven off. Now there may be hydrogen sulfide present in Technical Mo2S, but heating it would also drive that off.... and even if not adding finely powdered chalk, would neutralize any "acidic" character. And BTW, Calcium Carbonate is a component of Bore fouling!!! Remember the famous fouling issues with the original M16? the "fouling" that occoured was precipitated calcium carbonate. So any propellant fouling will also neutralize that theoretical "acidic character" of the Moly... or the Moly will neutralize any alkaline character of the propellant fouling if you wish... Either way the published arguement is faulty... I just LOVE (sarchasm) junk science. Basically if your bore gets rusty and you are using moly coated bullets the two things are NOT connected FWIW the only rifle barrels I own in which I am likely to use Moly bullets are both stainless steel, so to me the argument given in the published article is for my purposes... Moot. If it works for you use it, if it doesn't then don't, but don't base the decision to do either based on someone else's questionable (published or otherwise) arguement. AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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FWIW---I had some success using Lime-Away and then dried with a towel and tumbled. Speedy Gonzales of SG & Y Rifles (Benchrest gunsmith) has some articles on his web site about this topic. Good stuff. Go to Benchrest.com and look at the gunsmith link on the first page. | |||
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It never seems to amaze me how some will never believe documented studies, I'm not talking about just one but, there are piles of info sources on the acidic qualities of Moly. I've read a few articles in the last few years concerning the issues and I guess you didn't read the part where I said I had seen pictures in one study. They had slide by slide views of moly rubbed on gun quality steel and added water vapor in the form of condensation. The Moly literally etched the steel just like glass ethcing. Believe it or not Allan, the proof is in the pudding. Why would people just fabricate all of these experiments over the years if there were no truth to it? I don't have any qualms w/ a man using Moly in his weapons, he can poor the crap down the barrel and shake it around and then stick a darn water hose in it for all I care, I just personally don't care to treat my firearms in that manner especially in this very humid climate around here. Not to mention give up a good bit of velocity and suffer terrible accuracy w/ some rifles. And yes, Allan, I'm very well aware of how condensation occurs and I apologize for making a mistake and writing it backwards in my post. I didn't make As in Chemistry and Phisics while at Engineering school by having my head up my rear all of the time  .Have a good one. Reloader | |||
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I've never had an issue with moly causing any harm. But, then again I always clean my barrel. As to the making of Sulfuric acid. I has been way to many years since college chemistry. So I did a search. The forming of sulfuric acid isn't an easy one step process. It is not Sulfur dioxide and water but Sulfur Trioxide. Whichs comes from burning Sulfur Dioxide. Several pages will give you this information: """The principle steps in the sulfur burning process are burning sulfur in air to produce sulfur dioxide, then the sulfur dioxide is then reacted with oxygen again to produce sulfur trioxide. From there the sulfur trioxide with water to give us sulfuric acid. S + O2 --> SO2 SO2 + 1/2O2 --> SO3 SO3 + H2O --> H2SO4"""" As to if SO2 and water is corrosive Didn't check It is coffee time. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Hey Reloader, I know your intention is good to warn us of the "potential" for a problem. I've been trying to think back to when I first started using Moly and I'm not really sure. I'd have to go way back in my Load data to be sure. But, I'm going to guess 15-20 years. The heat and humidity in the Carolinas during the first part of our Season can reach 100deg and 90%RH. And I really enjoy slipping through the woods/swamps in a light drizzle, or 100%RH. So, I'd think the conditions for forming Pits is about as good as it gets for where and how I hunt. When I had to carry Rusting Blue and Termite Food before they began making Stainless and Synthetic, it was a constant battle to protect the outside. A light lube has always protected the inside back then, just as it does today. The people who provided that date you are referencing may be some of the same fools who believe it is OK to leave a barrel "fouled" for the Season. People who do that will end up with Pits where I hunt, whether they use Moly or not. Clean and lightly lubed keeps the Pits away. Always has - always will. | |||
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Hot Core and Allan, I believe your points about using stainless barrels are very valid concerning the pitting issues and I'm sure the corrosion is much less likely to occur in those barrels. I personally don't understand why anyone would use it in a big game rifle because it's cons seem to always far outway the pros. In high volume Varminting from Stainless bbls I can see a valid use as long as said rifle will perform adequately w/ it. Ya'll have a good one Reloader | |||
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I don't recall seeing any big game bullets being supplied by bullet manufacturers with Moly already on them. I do see Varmint and target bullets so coated... Big game shooters even when they try hard to practice simply don't put that many rounds downrange. Varmint shooters probably shoot up more ammo in their varmint rifle than a busload of big game shooters will in any given period. Barrel wear for varmint shooters is a MAJOR concern. For benchrest shooters the concern is nonexsistant because they change barrels like some people out there change their underwear. For Big game rifles? PLEASE! most of the barrel wear in most hunting rifles will come from poor cleaning technique (I.E. Dammaging the bore with your cleaning rod) Hell some people are better off leaving rifles dirty from some of the things I've seen.... AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Allan, I certainly agree and that's part of my point. I see guys out at the range all of the time w/ there hunting bullets treated w/ moly and on top of that they are using them in plain ole' sporters that probably wont see 1000 rounds in they're life. There are some big game bullets w/ the stuff on them. For instance Nosler's Combined Technology Partition Gold were wearing Moly for a while and still may be. Most of the CT bullet have Lubaloy but, they did put moly on a select few. Hornady is also a big molly user on their Light Mag and Heavy Mag factory loads and I believe Win was putting it on their Power Point Plus big game ammo. Not realy needed but, Probably for a sales pitch more than likely. Reloader | |||
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So I just bought 6 boxes of CT 270 gr .375. I assumed they have Lubaloy (since they are black). Isn't Lubaloy just CTs name for Moly?? As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Hey Ramrod, I believe it is a different coating from Moly. I'd suspect it is closer to the old Luba-Lox they used on Lead Shotgun Pellets years ago. May still do it. --- Hey Reloader, I have a few Blue Steel barreled rifles remaining. And they still get to go hunt in the bad weather just like the Stainless ones. One is Parkerized, one Teflon coated and one is still shiny Blue, or ready to rust. The shiny Blue one does not get Moly Coated bullets, but the other two do. Not sure what it all means other than I don't have Pits, but I spend a lot of time cleaning and lubing. Don't seem to "damage" any barrels cleaning them either. Never have gotten a good handle on how you all "damage a barrel" by cleaning it. Not saying it to get an argument started though. | |||
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I heard that! Although I will say that I see some guys that are just too darn anal about cleaning. I'll set my rifles in the trough, give em' a little while w/ the foam and then brush em a bit and run patches down until they come out clean. After that, I run a couple of fowlers down em' and then do some group shooting. I see guys at the range sometimes that shoot, clean, shoot, clean, shoot, clean when trying to shoot groups and that's on barrels that have long been broken in. Sometimes they'll shoot a group and then do a thorough cleaning before they shoot another. I can see where that could possible cause a good bit of harm. Now, I can see the need for the breakin process on a new tube but, after she's broke in I don't clean until I've put about 20 + rounds down the tube or it's a new range session unless it's just a patch to get the powder residue out. Have a Good One Reloader | |||
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Well, that's easy.... I'm sure you use a bore guide and clean from the breech. And reasonably sure you aren't using a rusty steel uncoated cleaning rod.... That and prolonged scrubbing with stainless steel bore brushes.... I never work real hard to clean bores, I let the chemicals do the hard work AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Let's talk bore cleaning... http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html probably the largest compilation of top shooters and barrel makers, and hardly any agreement on what's best. Still excellent reading! And a little moly talk by G David Tubb for fun. | |||
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Now I'm going to have to De-Bug the Range to see where that "Camera" is hidden. | |||
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