Alot of guys shoot target style bullets for their accuracy. What has always bothered me about this is how accurate does your rifle/load have to be when taking shots on deer size game from a tree stand & the max. distance is 100yds?

So your .260, 7-08. .308 SMK/NBT shoots .5moa but your INterlok/NP,etc. shoots 1.5moa, which do you hunt with? Change that to still hunting & does your choice stand? Me, for hunting under 300yds, I'll always go w/ terminal performance over extreme accuracy.

All my hunting rifles give me at least 1" groups at 100 yds, and that's all I need. The rest depends on bullet placement under field conditions and bullet performance.

As much as we all like and strive for accurate rifles (sub 1" - or these days even sub .5"), for big game hunting this is not strictly needed. Yes an accurate rifle may give the shooter more confidence. In reality you can kill anything that walks, as far out as you care to shoot at it with a rifle capable of a lot less accuracy than that. In reality 1.5-2" is probably fine. That does not stop us from looking for the ultimate in accuracy, just because it feels so good when it happens
- mike

From what I've found so far, we may finally have a bullet that combines the best possible accuracy, at least in many rifles, with excellent terminal performance: the Nosler Accubond. If that is so, then the dichotomy you've assumed in your question may no longer be true.

I always choose the rifle before the caliber.

My hunting is mostly for moose and deer in Quebec and Saskatchewan. My deer hunting rifle is chosen for its handling abilities while I am perched high up in a treestand and caliber/accuracy is secondary, the shots seldom exceed 75yds and any reasonable caliber will do. My idea of a good stand gun is a Rem 600 in 35 Rem shooting 200gr bullets or a Rem model 7MS in 350 RemMag also with 200gr bullets, these rifles both shoot under 1.5" at 100yds and are great from a treestand. I don't subscribe to Remingtons as hunting rifles since I favor CRF actions on hunting guns but these two are so handy from the stand that I couldn't be without them.
Accuracy is more important to me on a moose gun since we usually take longer shots than we do for deer.
And in both cases deer or moose the terminal performance will always outweigh the accuracy. Any rifle shooting under 1.5" at 100yds is fine for big game hunting.

My .02

fredj338:

I made that exact decision a few years ago. I've always prided myself that my deer rifles would shoot under a MOA. I've always shot the 6mm bore size and used partitions. I bought a Model 7 in 243 a few years ago that would shoot ballistic tips into around 3/4 inch. I just could not get any of the three partition weights under 1 1/2. I went with the partitions and had great success. I can't tell you how many deer that I shot with that rifle but it was quite a few. Most of the shots were under a hundred yards but I would have been comfortable with the right shot at 200 yds.

knobmtn

For target practice I use the Hornady SST's which are pretty inexpensive and for hunting I use the same load with either the Hornady Interbond or the Nosler Partitions. The Point of Impact are all the same with the same powder and powder charge. I get less than one inch with the Hornadys and just a bit over an inch with the partitions. I use 165 grain pellets in all the bullets. This effectively results in target practice with the hunting load and I don't have to keep sighting in the scope. I also got pretty much the same POI with 150 grain Hornady SSTs.

Fred,

Shot placement is key on any quick kill. But I'll go with minute of whitetail any day with an effective game bullet over minute of gnat with a target bullet while out hunting.

The closest you can get the pair the better. However, ethically, what answer can any GOOD Hunter choose??
Pretty simple and clear in my book.

But a Ballistic Tip has given me clear clean kills numerous times. Under 2700 fps MV, they are very dependable for deep penetration. For any deer sized game, they are a cross between the Target Bullet and the Hunting Bullet.

I've even seen a 650 lb cow elk downed with one, that only had a MV of 2250 fps out of a 30/06. It was a 165 grain BT. The Elk went 40 yds and was down, after being hit at a dead run at 175 yds, broadside. Bullet penetrated completely and destroyed both lungs and half of the liver. A partition or similar bullet would have done no more except maybe exit, which was not an issue.

So what more can I say? or ask for?

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Seafire, I would agree w/ you on the NBT if you keep them under 2700fps IMPACT vel. My own test show the BTs come apart too fast for me above that. I like the bonded bullets & the reliable NP, even if they only shoot 1.5MOA.

seafire/ B17G,

I wansn't trying to pick on Ballistic Tips. At the time they were an unknown bullet to me. The only thing I knew was that they were more accurate in that rifle. I had been shooting Partitions in 24 and 25 caliber rifles since 1969. I knew for sure they worked. That's why I went with a known over an unknown. I agree totally on shot placement. I've never lost a deer with a small caliber rifle in 46 years of hunting.

knobmtn

Accuracy beats power every time ...

fredj338 ----- If you shoot the right bullet you don't have to sacrifice either accuracy or terminal performance. Try the North Fork bullet and you will have a new outlook on hunting with a premium bullet. I shoot them from 7mm up to .416 and I shoot extensively at least three days a week, weather permiting. My finished hunting loads are of pin point accuracy. Shoot them enough and you don't have to give anything up to the Ballistic Tips-Sierra Match bullets or any other target grade bullets. Yep they are expensive, in the 40's for 50, so if you don't want to spend the money don't start, becouse once you do, you will be hooked. Good shooting.

Fred, I agree with you. I'll take terminal performance over "paper" accuracy every time. I've found that with 'most any good rifle chambered for a good hunting cartridge (from a .270 Win. to a .375 H&H), I can count on groups of at least 1" or less at 100 yds. with premium hunting bullets. I have found no use for greater accuracy, even for Coues deer and similar-size animals at extreme ranges.

Too many guys evidently hunt mostly paper targets these days, and many of them seem to have pocket gopher hunting confused with big game hunting.

Accuracy for it's own can be a very bitter bargain if it comes at the expense of terminal performance.

AD

"Accuracy for it's own can be a very bitter bargain if it comes at the expense of terminal performance".

Allen Day 2004 Noted Big Game Hunter and Gentleman

Wisdom for the AGES!!!

Other than a few situations I have used NP's for the vast majority of my big game hunting with very fine results. Those other bullets were short flirtations with bonded slugs, BT's or X bullets. I learned a long time ago that accuracy is rewarding but when hunting a clean one shot kill is a lot MORE rewarding.

Had a buddy a few years ago shoot a seriously large cow elk with a .300 Win Mag with older BT's and she dropped like hit by lightning. Both lungs destroyed. Earlier I had ragged on him about NOT using a NP or a tougher bullet. His choice of the BT's was economic, he had them, they were VERY accurate and he didn't want to spend the money or open his groups by using partitions. He was all about the .6" groups he shot at 100 yds and some NP's he had loaded were way over an INCH. OK. End of story.
The NEXT season (Same box of BT's) he gets a chance at a decent 6x6 bull at slightly less distance than the cow. An open standing shot at 200+ yds. At the shot I can see the bull favor his rt front but the impact just didn't sound right, TOO loud, not the hollow sound I'm used to on a lung shot. The BT had hit bone, blew up on the outside and never penetrated IN to do any serious damage. Luckily we had snow and were able to follow this bull and his two buddies ALL DAY LONG. Finally near dark we came upon them and VERY luckily we discerned which bull was the wounded and with another lung shot put him down. That BT acted like the one that killed the COW but what happened with the 1st shot of the day?? This guy is a real Sportsman and the whole episode really soured his first decent bull. I bought him a box of 180 gr NP's for Christmas that year. We had a good laugh but he loaded them up and will use them vs the BT's.

Sorry. I prefer bullet performance over benchrest accuracy. I'm not going to stand for 3 moa accuracy with a super slug but generally the true premiums deliver more than adequate accuracy for anything I've ever encountered.

FN in MT

My belief is that there is indeed a fine line between enough bullet, not enough, and more than nessecary. But once that criteria has been met, Im up for all the accuracy I can get, especially where long shots are possible.



The biggest reason for that is that shooting from a bench and in the field can be worlds apart and any edge in accuracy can mean the difference between a downed animal and tracking.



The more accuracy I have, the more confidence I have in the longer shots. Incidentally, Ive never hunted from a tree stand.



Interbonds, Accubonds and North forks do a lot to diffuse this argument. It is becoming a moot point due to the fact that both accuracy and terminal performance are becoming available in the same package.



I agree with seafire too, when used within their limitations, the garden variety polymer tipped bullets also fill the bill. I like them long and heavy..

I'm glad to see I am in such good company as Frank, Allen & the rest.

MPBixby, the question wasn't "power" but performance. I don't care how accurate a bullet is, if it can't penetrate to the vitals from ANY reasonable angle, the accuracy is of little value, especially under most field conditions (I don't hunt from a blind covered benchrest). Yes I love accurate rifles, but I won't switch to a target style bullet to shave .5moa from a 1.5moa load.

HC, the point isn't to deride anyone who practices on paper or tries to ring out the best accuracy you they get, far from it. I read posts all of the time about this load shooting better than that load (ie, .75MOA vs 1.5MOA) & the guy is hunting deer from a blind & can only see 100yds max. So why is subMOA accuracy sought or even desired? Not to get the SMK/NBT guys going again, but if your rifle shoots sub 2MOA & your max. range is 100yds, why,? The bullet still needs to kill cleanly w/ a well placed shot.
My own pet .338-06/210grNP is, on a good day a 1MOA rig, most days it easily stays under 1.5MOA. I play w/ powder & bullets all of the time seeking the holy grail of subMOA every time. I still hunt w/ that rig & have taken game out to about 350yds. If I miss, it's me, a SMK or NBT shooting under MOA would not have prevented the miss. Everything I do hit cleanly dies in very short order indeed.

Hot Core, I will agree with much of what you have said. I've never heard a hunter complain that he missed an animal because of TOO much practice (and damn few will admit they'd not practiced enough) I think the complaints should have been directed at those who have neither the range time nor the field experience to make valid statements but make them anyway.
One should practice until the functioning of his rifle is an automatic process. In fact, the sighting and firing should be well rehearsed also. One thing I will add is that a good bit of practice must be done using field positions. Using live ammo and/or dry firing. A good deal of the functioning and sight alignment practice can be done at home. (would not suggest using live ammo in the home)
Finally, and I can't remember who first posted this, the final sighting-in of the rifle must be done using a hunting grip on the rifle, not a classic bench rest position where the forearm is resting untouched on the front rest. Draw the rifle strongly into your shoulder using both hands and blaze away. The POI will probably not move beyond a minute of bambi but if you're trying to neck shoot a deer skulking thru a bean field, it may move enough to be a miss, or worse, a grievous, lingering death. I do agree that a 1.5 inch rifle will get the job done but you have to be in practice and know where your rifle is gonna shoot.

Man oh man! I am having flashbacks of my Sierra Matchking thread. Target bullets for targets hunting bullets for hunting. See below....NUFF SAID!

http://www.seahook.com/bestbullet.jpg

POP, I was hoping to avoid that, what fascinates me is the guy who searches for the holy grail of accuracy in his rifle, even using target bullet to achieve this, & then go out & hunt where his max. range is 100yds. So, terminal perfomance vs. extreme accuracy. This isn't limited to deer size game either. Read Frank N. response w/ his buddy & the .30/180grNBT. Yeah, yeah, I know, any bullet will kill if placed in the right spot, but for most of us it's about delivering a clean, quick, humane killing shot. I don't shoot groups on the animals I hunt.

Fred, This is so simple. I use Nosler Partitions, Accubonds, Interbonds and groove bullets. Every single rifle I own can do well under 3" groups consistantly at 300 yds. My SAKO 300 RUM does under 1" at that range. All of these bullets are admirable game bullets. When I hunt paper for mounting it or for eating it it will be with a Sierra Matchking! What I do not get is what makes these people more qualified than Sierra who warns against their use on game? Oh well, talking to a wall I guess!

A slightly different take on this thread. Would you rather miss an animal or wound him and have him get away. I'll take terminal performance every time but as stated above, with todays premium hunting bullets, you're not giving anything away in field accuracy to achieve excellent terminal ballistics.
Russ

Ahh Russ, EXACTLY!

Hey beemanbeme, I agree with every point you made.

Hey Fred, The first time I ever heard of a person using a MatchKing on Big Game was a long time ago about David Miller and his custom rifles. Caught me off guard and I got to looking into it. His results with "heavy" MatchKings on "small" Coues(SP?) Deer mislead a lot of folks into trying them on other Game as well. Now we hear a lot of folks talk about how well they work - sometimes.

But, there are so many excellent bullets "designed" for Hunting, I've never had a desire to chance a MatchKing on the Big Game I hunt.

Best of luck to all you folks.

HotCore, well said. Just food for thought to those guys out there seeking the Holy Grail of accuracy.