Getting into reloading for the .270 and .30-06, and naturally I'm trying to develop an accurate load for each with a heavy-ish bullet at a high velocity with safe pressures.

Both rifles, however, are developing lower velocities and/or higher pressures than they should with very standard loads.

In the .270 (a 22" barrel on a Mauser M98 action), a 150-gr. Nosler Partition with 53.0 gr. of H4831 started to show excessive pressure (measured by micrometer at the pressure ring, along with flattened and cratered primers) at an average velocity of about 2770 fps. That's almost the velocity Hodgdon shows for a max. load of 55.7 gr.--I'm surprised I'm hitting it with such a light charge, but if I drop the charge a grain I'm dropping down to about 2700 fps. This rifle achieves factory velocity or higher with most loads I've chronoed.

In the .30-06 (an old Winchester M70 with a 24" barrel), a starting load of 51.0 gr. of either IMR 4350 or H4350 behind a 180-gr. Hornady SP gets only about 2400 fps -- most of the manuals show 100-200 fps faster from that barrel length, *and* I'm getting more case expansion than full-power factory loads, though not maximum yet. This rifle also fires the Federal 180-gr. Partition load about 200 fps slower than factory listings (although the Federal loads do achieve listed velocity in the .270).

Bullets in both rifles were seated .030 in. from the lands.

Any suggestions for getting more velocity out of the '06 and more safety out of the .270? What faster or slower powders would you try in each? I was thinking of trying H4831 in the '06 and IMR 4350 in the .270 since those loads look good in the manuals as well.

In the case of the .270, you mention Hodgdon data, is the data with a Partition, or with an uspecified 150 gr bullet? Bullet construction has a big effect on pressure and hence velocity, I've seen 100 fps difference between a hornady and a-frame of the same weight, with the same powder charge.

Seriously, 100 fps makes no difference in trajectory or killing power, always load for safety.

As far as the -06, I dunno, sometimes a gun that is "slow" can be loaded to a slightly higher level safely, sometimes not.

I goofed--Hodgdon data is for a Hornady SP.

The load where I started to get pressure was 55.0 gr. Hodgdon's max is 55.7 but there are several manuals that show charges up to 57.0. Nosler shows a max load of 55.0 but with that load they got 2905 fps (out of a 24" barrel). Maybe I'm not that far off where I thought I outta be--at least with the .270.

The '06 is another story. Hornady, taking all their 180-gr. bullets as a group, shows 50.6 gr. of IMR- or H4350 getting 2500 fps from a 24" M70; I got 2461 with 51.0 gr. of H4350, only 2402 with the same charge of the IMR version.

These are supposed to be starting loads but, I also got case expansion at the pressure ring beyond that of a factory load. The factory load I tested was, as I said, the Federal 180-gr. Nosler, which only gave me 2487 fps (factory listing is 2700!), and the brass for my reloads was once-fired with that very same load.

Having loaded many thousands of rounds of these two. I have found that the books are very liberal with their vel. figures. If you need more vel buy a Mag. The 06 case just dosn't have the powder cap. to get the highest vel for the cal. Why do you think they made mags because you can shoot them faster. Not that the other ones don't work but they don't go as fast.

John,
Something real wrong here.....

I shoot 61 grs. of H4831 in my 270 and have been shooting that load for years in all 270's...H4831?? you can't get enough of that stuff in a case to hurt the rifle...30-06 or a 270!!!! IMR-4831 max is 55 grs in the books but I've shot 57 in all my rifles....

I think your shooting IMR Powder not H....

If your load is 55 with IMR then you may have to cut back for several reasons: soft brass,A tight chamber, a tight bore, a tight neck and thats not good..Now have you trimmed your cases as that can run pressures up??

Again your way below max with the 30-06 as about 55 IMR4350 is max but again most can shoot more than that with the powders you are using you should not be having such problems....Remington brass should be cut a grain or two under WW brass...With slow burning powders such as you are using you need to stay in the max area...

I suggest you seek professional help, (grin) no not a shrink, a sho nuff reloader, to look over the situation before something goes haywire, you almost have to be doing something wrong and its hard to diagnose over the net...

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

If you're shooting 61 grains of H4831 with a 150-gr. bullet in a .270 you are 3.5 grains over the max in any of the manuals. Max loads range from 55.0 in the Nosler manual to 57.5 in the Speer manual (the latter using H4831(SC)).

As for your suggestion that I'm shooting IMR rather than Hodgdon, well, funny but it came out of a new container purchased by me, and the container was round and plastic and had a Hodgdon label on it, rather than square and metal with an IMR label.

All of my cases were within the proper case length limits.

The chamber is not tight as I am finding signs of incipient case head separation on once-fired brass. So, I'm going to get headspace checked before experimenting further. But, others have suggested it may just be a case where my '270 has a tight throat or bore causing higher pressures, and my '06 has a loose one causing lower pressures and velocities.

P.S. That's a great buffalo on your website, congratulations!

I am probably a bit older than Ray.I believe in the sixties,the max load for the 150 gr might have been 61 grs.Most of the relaoding manuals,cut back their loads for protection against liability suits.If you can get your hands on some 1950 and 1960 manuals,you mostly likely find a diffrence in the loads from today
1geejay
www.shooting-hunting.com

Re. hot loads of the past--so I hear. Even in the '80s Finn Aagaard warned that Jack O'Connor's old recipes might be dangerous (though TX hill country vs. Idaho hill country weather might have something to do with that).

One of my fellow instructors at my club told us that he once tried some of P.O. Ackley's loads and couldn't get any of them even close without serious pressure signs.

John:

One significant difference is that the old loads were with original surplus H4831. This powder was some slower than newly manufactured H4831 and much slower than IMR 4831. I have quite a lot of it still and shoot it in a number of rifles ranging from .243 to .338 and I have found the surplus powder to be more like IMR 7828 than either of the newer 4831's.

Powder speeds aside, there is much variation between individual guns in the same caliber. My pre-Garcia Sako with a 24.35" barrel digests only 58.5 grains of original surplus H4831 behind a 130 grain bullet, but gets 3200 fps out of it! Jack O'connor's standard load of 60.0 grains would freeze the bolt on this gun.

On the other hand, a friend's Win 70A would take 60 grains without a hiccup (but it was never chronographed).

I suggest you try some Alliant RL22 or IMR 7828 in your .270.

Some .30-06's do quite well with 4831, even though it's regarded as a bit too slow. With 180 grain bullets, a friend gets nearly 2800 fps in his Sako. If you use bullets as heavy as 200 grains, you'll find H4831 starts to shine in the '06. But stay away from IMR4831 -- whatever it can do, IMR 4350 can probably do better.

Stonecreek:
Thanks for pointing out the difference between original surplus H4831 and the newly manufactured H4831.

I have had some suspicions about their differences as I used to load 58 gr. of surplus H4831 in my 25-06 behind a 100 gr. sierra. That was the recommmended load and it worked perfectly. Now 56 gr. of the new powder seems to be max for my rifle - it's also the max load according to my Lyman manual.

Herb