I tested a new load today. The load was 22-250 caliber, 52 grain Hornady boat tail match bullet. I used 39 grains of H-380. I used a fl sizing die, but I only sized the shoulder back .002 from the case fired in that gun. I seated four bullets .010 from the lands, four bullets .015 from the lands, four bullets .020 from the lands, four bullets .025 from the lands, and three bullets , .030 from the lands. All bullets shot 1 inch or under at 100 hundred yards, but, the bullets seated .015 from the lands shot into a group of .310 with the first shot off .250 from the other three. Bad squeeze, I think. Seating distance defintly makes a difference. The gun is a remington 700 VS with a 24 inch barrel.

I agree, but not all rifles shoot best with the bullets seated into the lands. Each rifle in an entity unto itself. With some of the more recent chamberings you cannot even reach the lands. It's almost like the manufacturers have never heard of SAAMI recommendations or just don't give a damn. With each new rifle I start by seating the bullets into the lands (if possible) then back off as required for best accuracy. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

The reason that factories are making longer throats is because of us...the shooters!

At one time the longest and heaviest bullet in .22 caliber was 55 grains. Then shooters wanted to start loading 100 grain bullets in the .22's...and the only way to do that is to lengthen the throat.

The same goes for .24, .25, .27, .28, .30 caliber all thje way up to .50 caliber.

Don't blame the manufacturers...blame shooters and marketting people...

Damned if I'm going to take any blame, 55gr in my 223Rem just touches the case mouth when it touches the rifling, yet it's still only one turn in twelve.
When I wanted to shoot 80gr in another 223Rem I ordered a 1 in 8 twist rate.
It's up to the manufacturer to relate the two.
Then Mr RIP says the .458 W.Mag has a free bore like over an inch or whatever.
I thought it was a trick to keep the pressures down? Accuracy doesn't seem to suffer anyway.
JL

quote:

Originally posted by Roger Keezer:
I seated four bullets .010 from the lands, four bullets .015 from the lands, four bullets .020 from the lands, four bullets .025 from the lands, and three bullets , .030 from the lands. . . . Seating distance defintly makes a difference.

Roger--you've broken the code. I first read about this technique on the Arnold Arms web site (heard about a similar procedure from a Sierra technician, but he kept everyting steady and varied the charge instead of the OAL) and adopted it in working up accuracy loads for many rifles. One other thing you could try--partial length resizing, say only half of the neck length. The unsized portion of the neck serves to keep the cartridge more centered in the chamber. After 5 years of work and I don't know how many rifles, it has not failed me one time. However, one 7-08 was stubborn and refused to shoot with any bullet other than a 160 gr Nosler Partition. And, two of my .22 cal rifles (.22-250 & .223) both have long throats and as a result, they are "two-shooters" because their best accuracy load won't function through the magazine.

Dustoffer, I held the fl sizing die up off the shell holder to size the shoulder back .002 from the fired case.

Members: Since this discussion relates to barrel throat length, allow me to ask - are there any manufacturers that are currently producing reasonably-length (i.e.,short) throats in their rifles? Thanks.

Not to rubbish trials and research and habits,
but with my very long 223 throat I had really good accuracy with factory (read FLSed) 45gr.projectiles (read short)
Made me wonder why I reload at all.
JL.

Whilst I try to load to the lands, it isn't always possible. Next best choice is magazine length, and once I find a decent load at that OAL, I try a few shorter lengths as well. Some rifles seem sensitive to it, and other (equally accurate) rifles, don't seem to care.

quote:

Originally posted by pagris:
... are there any manufacturers that are currently producing reasonably-length (i.e.,short) throats in their rifles? ...

Hey Pagris, Interesting question that you might want to create a separate topic for.

I believe it varies from rifle to rifle even within a specific manufacturer and will be difficult to get a handle on. But, things we take for granted just don't always turn out as we anticipate them.

For example, Weatherby rifles. How often do you see it mentioned they have a whole lot of Freebore? And then the discussion mentions how bad having a lot of Freebore is bad for accuracy. I agree it can be, but if the person just keeps messing with the Seating Depth, they can often find a good accurate Load with a lot of "jump" to the Lead. One of my really accurate Loads has the bullet jumping 0.264".

Also concerning the Weatherby rifles, not all of them have a whole lot of Freebore. A good buddy bought a 308Win Wby Ultra-Lightweight rifle and was just as excited as a kid at Christmas. Not only did it fit him perfectly, it shot better with off-the-shelf ammo than any rifle he had bought in a long time.

So, I'm wondering about the Freebore and ask him if I could measure it on his rifle. No problem there. And I found out it was actually "shorter" than the Freebore in the last 308Win M700 I'd bought.

Handled his U-Lt a bit and ended up trading for one in 308Win myself. The Freebore in it was also shorter than in my M700. I remember thinking at the time that the folks at Weatherby must be taking in to account that most people who buy them will "probably" be using the super-sleek high Ballistic Coefficient bullets, and by having a bit shorter Throat, it wouldn't hurt a thing.
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Comparing the last Remington to that Weatherby, I thought the Rem would actually do better with Round Nose bullets because you could Seat them further out, providing more Powder Space and still have the Cartridge fit in it's magazine. Using the super-sleek bullets in the Rem often had the Seating determined by the magazine length.

The magazine on the Wby is longer than the Rem and using the high Ballistic Coefficient bullets in it is no problem at all. I've yet to find where a bullet that would Kiss-the-Lands needs to be Seated deeper to go in the magazine.
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The problem you will run up against is finding people with enough experience with multiple manufacturers rifles of the same caliber. And then when you find them, not all will have been concerned with comparing Freebore between them.