I purchased a lot of once fired Rem brass for 22-250. I full length sized it, but for some reason I have a hard time chambering the loaded ammo. The brass is shorter than max length, I'm using the same oal as my previous recipe with different brass. I'm thinking that the shoulder isn't set back far enough making it hard to close the bolt, just don't see how that is possible since I haven't changed the sizing die. Any ideas?

Is there a way to set the shoulder back farther, I've never had to mess with that, just put the die in the press and leave it set like it came from the factory.

"Note to self" Always check and make sure new brass will fit in chamber before loading up a bunch. Also, after making up first round check and make sure that round will chamber.

So the case isn't too long and the cartridge isn't too long. Can you close the bolt but with a bit of pressure? How much pressure?

Blacken a entire cartridge with a magic marker and see exactly where the cartridge is binding and we'll go from there.

Actually I only loaded a few rounds as I'm working up a load with a different powder.

The bolt will close, but with too much force, way more than factory or my other reloads.

I'll try that marker thing, that might tell something. Thanks-

quote:

Originally posted by NMiller:
I purchased a lot of once fired Rem brass for 22-250. I full length sized it, but for some reason I have a hard time chambering the loaded ammo. The brass is shorter than max length, I'm using the same oal as my previous recipe with different brass. I'm thinking that the shoulder isn't set back far enough making it hard to close the bolt, just don't see how that is possible since I haven't changed the sizing die. Any ideas?

Is there a way to set the shoulder back farther, I've never had to mess with that, just put the die in the press and leave it set like it came from the factory.

I used to run into this a lot. Then I started using the multiple sizing strokes and it pretty much went away and I use a lot of once fire brass. I have measured a lot of brass that I have sized and found that the head to shoulder length can be made to vary one or two thousandths just by the speed of the sizing stroke or the amount of lube on the case.

Your brass was probably fired in a chamber longer than your rifle's. When sizing your own fired brass the press does not have to do much work to keep the shoulder where it belongs. It needs to push the shoulder for your new brass just a little further to get it where you need it.
To make sure brass, that is a little hard to chamber, works try...1. sizing a case retracting it from the die slightly (just enough to get a finger on it) 2. then spin the brass 1/2 turn and 3. size again very slowly. This second pass will usually force the shoulder back a little more without resetting you die.
Some times I do this for a total of 3 sizing strokes before I pull the case out over the expander.
If this doesn't work you may have to adjust your die down slightly. If that doesn't work you can put a feeler gauge under the case head for one pass.
If that doesn't work you have just been lucky to date and your die and chamber do not quite match. At this point you would be looking at shaving either the die or a spare shell holder.
Try the preceding suggestions before you start modifying your die or shell holder.

If you remove your firing pin assy from your bolt and size the cases so you can feel just the slightest drag (and the exact same amount of drag) every time you close it you will notice improved accuracy too.

Ireload is telling you how to properly set up your die for your rifle.
I would suggest you get out your load book and read it. Twice. Then get out the instructions that came with your dies and read them. Twice. Every set of dies has to be adjusted when they come from the facrory. If you haven't a load book and have been relying on info from the net, you have been very lucky.

If you can chamber the cartridges, even with a bit of force, and you are SURE they are not too long and the case is within specs, you can go ahead and shoot them. No harm done. Then get out your instructions on how to set up your die to correctly full length resize your cases and your problem will go away.

Basically, loosen the lock nut on the die and screw it up out of the way. Run the ram on your press all the way to the top. Thread your die into the press until it touches the ram (with the shell holder in place). Lower the ram and give the die an additional half turn and then lock it down. When you raise the ram, there should be a rather stout cam-over resistance before the ram tops out. When you resize a case and the ram is all the way to the top, there should not be any space between the shell holder and the die. Once you have full length resized your 1X brass, it should fit readidly into your chamber with little resistance.
Once you have fire formed the brass to your rifle, go to Ireloads post to adjust your die for resizing to fit your rifle.

I have several reloading books and manuals, I set my dies like you mentioned with the one difference that I give the die an additional 1/4 turn, not 1/2 turn, after it contacts the shell holder, because that is what the manufacturer recommends. I was thinking more of an internal adjustment that I wasn't aware of.

That is why I can't figure it out because I've reloaded for everything I have and never had this problem. I did the marker test, it definitely looks like it is hitting on the shoulder. I'm thinking to take ireload's suggestion and maybe shave down the top of the shell holder where it contacts the die to allow it to go deeper into the die (size matters! ) It seems better to do it to the shell holder rather than the die because if I screw something up it's cheaper to replace the holder than the die. Make sure to mark the holder as modified so it doesn't interfere with other loading operations.

are you only neck sizing?
on batches of once fired brass that has NOT been fired in the rifle I will be using it for, HAS TO BE FULL LENGTH RESIZED AND THEN FIRE FORMED TO FIT THE CHAMBER OF THE RIFLE I INTEND TO USE. also if you are not using enough lube on the inside case necks the expander will pull the shoulder out as it is pulled back through the neck.

Well, as you just discovered, chambers (and fired brass) come in all sizes. The outcome (dimensions) of a sizing operation depends on die dimensions, die setting and dimensions of fired (unsized) brass. A particular setting of a given die may sufficiently size brass fired in one chamber, but not the next.

The head to shoulder dimension of the sized brass is a very likely (but not the only possible) culprit for your hard chambering. When you size brass, the shoulder actually moves forward, only to be pushed back as the case is fully pressed into the die. How much the shoulder is pushed back (also) depends on where it was originally, and how much is was moved forward by sizing of the case walls.

Luckily, it is easy to quantify the head-shoulder case dimensions - of both fired and sized brass. This gizmo will help you for a modest layout:

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?catego...tem=HK-66&type=store

Now it is easy to compare the head-shoulder dimensions of brass fired in your chamber, vs. the same dimension of the brass sized after being fired (in another chamber). Ideally, you want the shoulder of the sized brass moved back .001-.002" below that of the (unsized) brass fired in your chamber. No more, lest you create a head-space problem for yourself! Oh, and btw, the suggestion of adjusting a FL sizing die in quantities of 1/4 turns is at best approximate! In reality, you want to adjust your die to size your brass according to the amount of shoulder push back you can "afford" (i.e. .001-.002").

This experience will also tell you, why it is best to keep a full length sizing die reserved for one chamber (unless you constantly want to adjust your die), and why it is best to keep brass separate - one chamber, one batch of brass.

- mike

"I'm thinking that the shoulder isn't set back far enough making it hard to close the bolt, just don't see how that is possible since I haven't changed the sizing die. Any ideas?"

Yeah. There is one reason a cartridge is hard to chamber; it's too big in at least one dimension.

You seem to have eliminated chamber length so that leaves shoulder length or diameter. If the die sizes other cases well then it's not likely to be the diameter. Set the shoulder back a little bit and try again. DO NOT think a quarter or half turn of a die is a "little" adjustment, a quarter turn moves the shoulder about sixteen thousanths down, nearly twice the normal headspace tolerance, min to max. Turn it down about a thirty second turn, or about 4 thousanths at a time instead.

Why does this happen with your new brass but not the old? A difference in alloy and hardness makes for different springback amounts, it's all part of the game.

"I've never had to mess with that, just put the die in the press and leave it set like it came from the factory."

No factory even attempts to set their dies to match our individual press or chamber. That's our job.

Are we saying that the head space can be adjusted by screwing the die farther into the press? It seems to me that if the two metal surfaces of the die and shell holder contact each other and the slop is taken out of the press by adding a 1/4 turn, the only thing that will happen by screwing it in more than that is to put more stress on the press. The metal won't be compressed to push the case farther into the die to shove the shoulder back. The metal to metal contact is going to establish the depth that it can go into the die. I could be wrong, just trying to understand.

I think I generated some confusion when I said I don't adjust the die: obviously you have to adjust it for your press, I was referring to any internal adjustment that I didn't know about.

Thanks for the input.

When you size your brass, is your die actually touching the shellholder? Not just when you set the die originally, but during the sizing process? If they don't touch during the sizing process, there is room for more adjustment.

Another thing that MAY cause problems is if your expander ball is pulling the neck of the case forward after sizing. Try lubing the inside of the neck lightly with some Imperial sizing die wax or whatever you're lubing cases with (what ARE you using for lube, btw?). If the expander ball is rough, you may need to polish it.

new brass could be a bit thicker in the web area and you may just be stopping on th expander/de-capper.

Thanks JLarson, that was the problem! There was a slight space between holder and die when sizing a case even though it was tight and cammed over without one. I tightened it up and it made the difference. That is what a bunch of you guys were saying, when he said to check the space with a case in the die the light came on. Some of us are a little slower than others!

I tweaked the new load a bit and shot a .191 3 shot group at 100 yds! Best I've ever done. Maybe I'll have to figure out how to post pics on here.

Glad you got it working. You must have a pretty tight chamber.

Happy shooting.