I just bought a new Ruger #1 in 7x57.
When I started checking the distance to the lands with various bullets,I found the following:
175 Nozler Partition - 3.098" COL to lands
175 Rem CorLokt - 3.221 " " "
168 Sierra MK - 3.125 " " "
140 Nozler BT - 3.195 COL to lands

I'm new to both Rugers and 7x57 but the throat length seems excessive based on experience with other rifles and calibers????

In the other rifle calibers I load for, the bullets are seated no more than .02 from the lands and generally much closer than that.

One reason I bought this rifle was that supposedly Ruger was making its own barrels now and that the throats were of a more normal configuration.

SAMMI max COL is 3.065.
I know this isn't written in stone, but you would think SAMMI max plus a couple of hundredths or so ,in a production gun would be normal.

Anybody care to share what they have found in this area?

Thanks
Covey16

I just went through this with a CZ 7x57 I just got.
Barnes 140 TSX into the lands 3.25"
Barnes 160 TSX into the lands 3.265"
I loaded the the 140's to 3.080 and the 160's to 3.20. With H414 and IMR 3031 both bullet/load combo's shot sub MOA. I have not had time to experiment with any other seating depths. 7x57's are notorious for having very long throats. I shoot Barnes TSX a lot and they seem to like a long run before they get to the rifling. I have found that, when able, seating the TSX close to the throat gives mediocre, at best, accuracy. Other bullets may give different results.

I'll get to shoot the rifle next week and the proof is in the pudding.

I'm just going to start testing .02 off lands and see what happens.

Looks like a CZ has a fairly long throat also and still shoots well.

Covey16

quote:

I shoot Barnes TSX a lot and they seem to like a long run before they get to the rifling.

The CIP standard specifies a long throat and European made rifles will follow that standard. Also, the caliber was designed for a rather heavy-for caliber-bullet, being a RN 173 gr bullet. I am not sure about the SAAMI standard for American made rifles such as the Ruger.

The engraving resistance of the Barnes-X bullet is more than a lead-core bullet. Its bearing surface is longer for one, and the metal is harder to cut into the rifling. Therefore they require a longer jump to the lands to pick up speed before they enter to aid the whole process. Generally somewhere between 1.5 to 2 mm.

The same should apply for solid shank bullets, like the Rhino bullet, as they are essentially solids too, ito the bearing surface (the ogive does not touch the bore) that must engrave.

Accuracy with Barnes-X vary from rifle to rifle and some rifles just do not like them. A friend of mine gets clover leaves in his 300 Win Mag. When you get 1 MOA though, then you are set for your trip.

Chris

quote:

Originally posted by truvelloshooter:
[QUOTE]I shoot Barnes TSX a lot and they seem to like a long run before they get to the rifling.

The CIP standard specifies a long throat and European made rifles will follow that standard. Also, the caliber was designed for a rather heavy-for caliber-bullet, being a RN 173 gr bullet.



I'm imagine SAMMI specs are similiar though I've never seen a reamer drawing for 7x57.
I tend to shoot heavy for caliber bullets in most rifles, but would like to find a 140 grain bullet that works in this one.

Thanks for the info.

Covey16

Loading my #1 I ended up with
160 TSX-COL 3.21 .03 off the lands
160 NPT-COL 3.17 this should .025 off but haven't verified it yet.
I still have some 175 gr sierra's i want to play with as well

My 7x57mm is not a #1, or even a Ruger, rather it is a CZ 550 American. I know that some folks say it doesn't matter about the overall lenght, but in my rifle it does. My rifle, with a barrel carrying a 1x8.66 twist, has a very long throat. On the last box of 162 grain Hornady SSTs that I opened (my rifle really likes these) the overall cartridge lenght is 3.337. That is when the ogive is just kissing the lands. The case is 2.230 inches long, the bullet itself averages a lenght of 1.403 inches and you do the math. There just isn't a whole lot of bullet shank in that case neck. However, seated .01 inch off the lands my rifle shoots consistent half inch groups at 100 yards with H414 powder and one day, I shocked the hell out of myself by shooting a .216 inch center-to-center group. Now, if I seat the bullet to 3.065 inches, which reloading books often quote as the max overall lenght, my groups open up to 1-inch and 1.25-inches. One inch groups are not shabby at all. My throat is so long that I cannot take 175 grain Hornady spire points, or round-nose bullets, and seat them .01 inch from the lands. Now, with long throats like my rifle has, I have learned that my bullet choice should be flat-based bullets. Depending on the make, boattail bullets eliminate another .15 inch from the case neck, bullet gripping surface. My only complaint with the 160 grain class bullets is they sure look funny. I mean my 162 grain Hornady SSTs have an overall length of 3.327 COL when seated .01 inch off the lands. They fit in the magazine okay, and they shoot like the world's afire, so I don't have too much of a complaint there. My overall take is, forget what the books say about COL. If your rifle likes bullets seated .01 inch off the lands, then go for it. If it likes them seated to a COL of 3.065, then go for that. Tom Purdom

Most #1s have looong throats. The up side is you are likely to get the 'X' or 'TSX' to shoot well w/o encroaching on your powder space.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
Most #1s have looong throats. The up side is you are likely to get the 'X' or 'TSX' to shoot well w/o encroaching on your powder space.

Great info guys.
Might need to give Barnes a try. Never used them before.

Boomer
Went to Pendleton Gun the other day.
Nice people, decent prices and a good old gunstore atmosphere.

Fairly good selection for a small out of the way store.

Had a Ruger 1KV that well.....

Thanks again

Covey16

Seems like everyone has pretty well covered the situation. However, I'd like to add a few comments of my own. First, unless one has a 7x57 with a custom chambering in theur barrel, the throat will be long ebough to accomodate bullets up to 175 gr., that's a given. My Winchester M70 seems to like just about anything I run through it except the Winchester bulk 150 gr. bullets. based on the ones I have, they are just plain crap! My custom FN Mauser has a Douglas barrel with standard throat and it will shoot .75" groups all day long with Winchester factory loads with the 145 gr. Power Points. My Ruger #1 had a throat so long (Over 2") that I sent it back to Ruger to be fixed. I ahven't had a chance to shoot it much since it came back, but a short preliminary run shows at least one inch group potential. The really nice thing about the Ruger is you can seat bullet farther out and not have to worry about whether or not they'll fit in a magazine.
I've gotten some really decent results using W-760 regarding velocity. H-414 is reputed to also be a very good powder for the 7x57.
The more I use the cartridge the more I like it.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by covey16:
I just bought a new Ruger #1 in 7x57.
When I started checking the distance to the lands with various bullets,I found the following:
175 Nozler Partition - 3.098" COL to lands
175 Rem CorLokt - 3.221 " " "
168 Sierra MK - 3.125 " " "
140 Nozler BT - 3.195 COL to lands

I'm new to both Rugers and 7x57 but the throat length seems excessive based on experience with other rifles and calibers????

In the other rifle calibers I load for, the bullets are seated no more than .02 from the lands and generally much closer than that.

One reason I bought this rifle was that supposedly Ruger was making its own barrels now and that the throats were of a more normal configuration.

SAMMI max COL is 3.065.
I know this isn't written in stone, but you would think SAMMI max plus a couple of hundredths or so ,in a production gun would be normal.

Anybody care to share what they have found in this area?

Thanks
Covey16

No, that's NOT excessive, not for the 7X57mm-it "normally" has a long throat.

Regard long throats in the 7X57mm Rugers as a gift that allows you to achieve ballistics that would be unobtainable with a short throat.

Loaded correctly, Ruger's long 7X57mm throats don't cause accuracy problems......

I'll go along with "El D" on that. Interesting fact that as the .275 Rigby was sold in two forms by Rigby. As you should already know, the .275 Rigby was nothing more than the 7x57 Mauser round, but no way in hell would the British acknowledge a German cartridge. besides, many Brits at the time really were not firearms savvy, and their gunsmith's even did the sighting in for them. For all I know, that may even still be true today.
Anyway, qwhen you bought a .275 Rigby, you had to specify if you were using 140 gr. bullets ot 175 gr. bullets and then the rifle would be throated accordingly. A rifle throated for 175 gr. bullet could use the 140 gr. bullets but the reverse was not true. The 175 gr. bullet load would have been too long to chamber in a guns et up for the 140 gr. loads.
Paul B.

I'll have a Rigby throated for the 175 gr bullets please.

I've loaded 50 rounds with various combinations of the above mentioned bullets plus 140gr Nozler BT,powered by 4064,h4350 and RE22.
Bullets set from 02-.05 from lands.

Hope to take this conglomeration to the range Tuesday.

Like they say, you don't know till you pull the trigger.

Thanks again for all the great info and history.

Covey16

Most of the Rugers if not all are long throated in 7x57. This is not bad, you just have to pour in a bit more powder and load them as you are saying .020-.030 off the lands. Most of mine are OAL of between 3.1 and 3.2 depending on the bullet. You left out H414 which is one of the best, probably the best 7x57 powder. In one of the long throated rifles, you can get 3000 fps with the 140's and roughly 2800 fps with 160's. Next best in the powder lineup is RL19, try it as well.

"You left out H414 which is one of the best, probably the best 7x57 powder."


Wasn't intentional.
Others on this forum with experience have recommended H414/Win 760 and I intended to try some.

Nearest location that sells powder (18 miles) didn't have any.
Next nearest location (48 miles) didn't have any.
The next nearest place is 72 miles and I haven't checked with them yet.

The quest continues.

Covey16

quote:

Originally posted by jstevens:
Most of the Rugers if not all are long throated in 7x57. This is not bad, you just have to pour in a bit more powder and load them as you are saying .020-.030 off the lands. Most of mine are OAL of between 3.1 and 3.2 depending on the bullet. You left out H414 which is one of the best, probably the best 7x57 powder. In one of the long throated rifles, you can get 3000 fps with the 140's and roughly 2800 fps with 160's. Next best in the powder lineup is RL19, try it as well.

H414/WW760 is certainly a great selection for use with 140-grain bullets. Since these are close to IMR 4350, they should be good with 150 and 160 grain bullets as well. For the 175-grainers, I have found that Norma N205/MRP or RE 22 will give velocities in the vicinity of 2700 FPS from long-throated 7X57's witout excessive pressures. My R-P cases used with such loads have lasted for over 10 loadings w/o stretched primer pockets......

My approx 15 year old M77 Ruger gives an OAL of 3.295" with the 140 and 150 Nosler Ballistic Tips touching the origin of the rifling.
The best accuracy comes from the Federal Classic factory load with the 170 grn RN. About 1 inch for 3 shots.
The 140 grn Remington and Frontier factory loads performed about like my handloads ... about 1.5 to 2.5 inches. All the above with the scope at 9X.

On the other hand my 95 Mauser shoots 3 shot groups about half that size ... with the issue sights

Just order some from Grafs or MIdway and have it delivered to the front door. Sure be cheaper than buying $2 gas to drive 75 miles. I have never loaded heavier than 160's in all my years of loading 7x57's, although I shoot nothing else in a 7 RM. I guess anything I thought I needed more than a 160 NP, I need a .338 or .375 anyway.

Covey,

There's H414 sitting on the shelf at Nichols in Many if your looking for some.

quote:

Originally posted by boomer453:
Covey,

There's H414 sitting on the shelf at Nichols in Many if your looking for some.

Boomer
I had heard Louisiana powder has Sauce Piquante in it and will make your rifle smell funny.
On the other hand , I bought the rifle in Zwolle so it ought to shoot better with Louisiana powder.


Seriously,didn't know about Nichols.
I'll check it out .
Thanks for the tip.

Jstevens
I just stocked up on powder and primers, didn't want to pay HazMat charges for 1lb of powder.

Covey16

Update and more questions.
Took the rifle to the range Tuesday and had the following results:
175 gr Corelokt 47.0 RE22 bullet seated .02 from lands ave of 3 shot groups 1.25"

175 Nos Part 43.0 H4350 seated .05 from lands
ave 1.0

Several different configurations of 140 Nos BT
and 41.0 of IMR 4064 all shot between 1.5 and 2"

The load I expected the most from 168 MK and 43.3 of H4350 shot no groups smaller than 1.5.

One thing that was consistent with all loads was that the case neck expanded to .321 OD and all the case necks were smoked to the top of the shoulder.
The rest of the case was clean as a whistle.
I cleaned the barrel 3 times during the process and got virtually no copper (Outers foam) but a huge amount of carbon.
Primers looked practically unused except for the firing pin indentation.
Neck sized unfired Remington cases and Remington 9 1/2 primers were used.

Does all this sound like I need to up the loads substantially or be happy with what Ive got?

The rifle is scoped with a VX2 1-4 in Leupold low mounts.

The really frustrating part is that the rifle I shot while the Ruger was cooling put 40 69 gr SMKs into an inch.
It's a 16" AR15 that I pulled the carry handle off of and attached Nikon Monarch just for fun.

Any experiences or advise would be appreciated.

Covey16

I don't know about upping the loads substantially, but i do think they have to be uploaded to some degree. It would be interesting to see what a chamber cast of your rifle would show. I once had a Ruger 77 with a larger than normal chamber and the groove diameter was .285". That rifle would digest loads that would lock up either my 98 Mauser or Winchester M70. Damn gun thought it was a .280 Remington. Ruger is a bit notorious for fat chambers and loose bores. It helps keep pressures down. Doesn't seem to hurt accuracy though, at least in none of the Rugers I have.
Paul B.