For our Central European hunting conditions this calibre is probably more powerful than necessary. There are few critters around here which cannot be killed fast and cleanly with a 30/06.

However, there is one Magnum rifle in the safe mounted with a nice and bright Zeiss 8x56 scope, ideal for those nightly hunts for wild pigs during the moon phase or on snow. One can also presume that a big, relatively slow bullet should kill reliably without destroying a lot of meat. Our grandfathers knew why they favoured rounds like the 9.3x72 R or the 8x57 IR out of their drillings and bockbuchsflinten.

Inspired by Seafire’s work on reduced loads with Blue Dot I started to experiment with the 338 Winchester Magnum. 200 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips were on the shelf and seemed to be a good choice because they are known to open up even at lower speeds than other bullets. With full loads of RL19 the precision of these bullets was, by the way, not so brilliant. 36 grains of the above mentioned powder gave very good precision and showed no signs of overpressure. A calculation with Quick Load gave a speed of 698 m/s at a pressure of about 3600 bar, still on the safe side for this cartridge. The kinetic energy was somewhere between the 8x57 IR and the speedier 30/06. The rifle was sighted in about 4 cm high at 100 meters, even when not hunting in the woods but at distances at up to 140 meters in the field this should be sufficient. This distance is what I consider a safe maximum for our smallish roe deer and for the bigger hogs in a bright and snowy night.

The first animals that fell to the new load were 2 foxes, both shot within 30 minutes and at 50 and 80 meters. Even though both were perfect chamber hits, both went for about 30 and 40 meters, leaving a fine blood trail which was easy to follow on the snow. My first impression after this experience was that possibly the bullet was too slow, a fox hit by a big bullet like a 30 calibre Nosler Partition usually drops on the spot and is in many cases partially blown up. That had not happened with those 2 predators.

I decided to continue to continue the experiment and give it a try on some bigger game. The opportunity came only a couple of nights later. There was still snow and the ground was frozen. The wild pigs were for this reason frequenting the bait sites with regularity. I was about to go home at about 0:45 AM when I heard their foot steps approaching on the overfrozen snow. It was a whole bunch of them, fighting over the yellow corn. When one separated from the lot and showed it’s broad side, I shot and dropped it. Like usual, they started to “haul ass†in different directions. One however made the mistake to stop and wait for a couple of seconds before disappearing into the thicket. My next shot dropped it as well. Then, the stage was clear and empty, one bullet left in the rifle. I tried to collect my breath and waited for the adrenalin to ease a little. No chance, some minutes later 3 hogs appeared again and not walked but ran to the bait site, still eager for the corn. I fired my last round and saw the pig running away. It had not gone far, the chamber hit had left a nice blood trail and I found it after about 30 meters.

The damage done by these supposedly slow bullets was considerable, the hearts and on two animals one front leg which I had unfortunately hit were shattered. It seems that the Ballistic Tips even at those speed work as expected. However, the damage to the meat was very small. I’d imagine that at full speed they would just destroy too much.

This morning the first roe deer fell, too. It was a heavy male fawn, shot at about 30 meters from a high stand over a winter wheat field. The bullet entered just behind the shoulder and left somewhat to the rear and low. Some “green sauce†had to be taken care of, the damage on the rips however was comparable to the 30/06 with a tougher bullet. Very nice performance again.

Very impressive was also the absence of recoil, the relatively low blast and the barely visible muzzle fire. So far these first results are not yet representative but seem to go into the right direction. The load is neither too destructive nor too slow and turns a former “buffalo rifle†into a universal gun to be carried here every day.

My appreciation goes to Seafire for his testing and ideas.

DUK,

Fantastic Report!!!

Cheers

I also noticed very minimal muzzle flash with Blue dot in the .22-250. Thought at the time it could be useful for hunting at night.

I sure would like some load data for the 22-250 with blue dot. Thanks 338vt

338 VT:

Send seafire an email and he will send you load data for the 22/250 and blue dot.

cheers
seafire

More experimenting with reduced loads and a Ruger 77 Mk. II in .338 Win Mag.:

180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip 37.5 grain Blue Dot 31 mm group at 100 meters
180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip 42.5 grain Vihta N110 18 mm †â€
200 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip 41.0 grain Vihta N110 82 mm †â€
200 grain Speer SP 42.4 grain Vihta N110 45 mm †â€
200 grain Speer SP 36.0 grain Blue Dot 8 mm †â€

All loads were calculated by Quick Load to be within the range of 722 to 801 m/s. Calculated pressures were about 3399 to 3691 bar Piezo, a good safety margin under maximum. All groups were only 3 shots, just in order to get an indication for further testing.

The 200 grain BT had given good results with Blue Dot (36 grain for a 25 mm a group), I would presume that with further trials with the Vihta N110 one would find a load that is acceptable, as well.

The Speer 200 grain SP as the cheapest bullet gave the very best results with a Blue Dot. 8 mm I’d say is pretty good for any Ruger 77 which’s only modification is a Timney trigger. However, the 180 grain Ballistic Tip with N110 was not very far behind, 2nd best load I got so far. I will try to use both on game as soon as possible.

quote:

For our Central European hunting conditions this calibre is probably more powerful than necessary. There are few critters around here which cannot be killed fast and cleanly with a 30/06.

Actually, DUK, it is the same all over North America, too. Only a lot of the boys have been brainwashed by the gunmakers into thinking that some kind of magnum is necessary, when it ain't!

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
Only a lot of the boys have been brainwashed by the gunmakers...

I guess this applies to most kinds of industries. It might be brainwash but is also fun to play with new toys, be they guns, cars, computers, ... Besides, it makes the economy grow, doesn't it?

Inspired by Seafire (and some IMR4227 data that I found on their website) I did some testing with H4227 which I always use for reduced loads for my 6,5x57. I got pretty good results with 37 grains H4227 behind a 200 grains Hornady SP chronod at 685 m/s (2250 fps).
I would like to shoot a couple of roe deer with this load, but I wonder what the minimum speed would be for this 200 grains Hornady still opening up?

With such a big bullet, I would just give it a try. Can't go completely wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by dutchgus:
Inspired by Seafire (and some IMR4227 data that I found on their website) I did some testing with H4227 which I always use for reduced loads for my 6,5x57. I got pretty good results with 37 grains H4227 behind a 200 grains Hornady SP chronod at 685 m/s (2250 fps).
I would like to shoot a couple of roe deer with this load, but I wonder what the minimum speed would be for this 200 grains Hornady still opening up?

that 200 grain Hornady will open up at that MV. I load up the same bullet in my 338/06 at the same velocity alot to duplicate the old 33 Winchester.
If in doubt, go with a Nosler Ballistic Tip.

Cheers
seafire