I've read alot about people using blue dot in cartridges for reduced velocity/recoil. I have a 458 Lott and am searching for a reduced velocity/recoil/plinking load and was wandering if blue dot would be applicable. I have some 350 gr. lead bullets with no gaschecks so I want the velocity to be around 1000 fps in order to reduce recoil and bullet leading but at the same time be accurate at 100 yards. I understand blue dot can give great accuracy at low velocities. Just the combo I want but don't see much work done in the larger calibers such as the Lott. Maybe that's because it isn't applicable. Hoping Seafire might be able to chime in on this since he has the most experience with blue dot.

If its worth a try, how do I determine what charge to start with?

If blue dot is applicable, what type primers do you recommend - large pistol, large pistol mag, large rifle, large rifle mag?

Thanks for any and all information.

I've used 33 gr. of Blue Dot in my .358x.404 IMP behind 300 gr. Gas checked bullets at 1700 fps. with some success and no pressure signs. This case will hold 100 gr. of 4350 .WLRM primers were used. There was no filler and got clean burning. This should give you a starting point for your interpulation. roger

bartsche - Thanks for the info. I was thinking of starting at around 25% of what my case holds of Blue Dot. 25% of 82.4 gr. that fills my Hornady brass to the top of the neck is 21 gr. I'll load the 21 gr. load here at the house and load up the rest in 1 gr. increments at the range. This way, I don't have to pull any bullets with loads that are too hot to shoot. I'm planning on shooting this tomorrow morning. I will post my results tomorrow night - in case anybody else is interested.

quote:

I will post my results tomorrow night - in case anybody else is interested.

I'm sure we have some lurking eye balls. roger

Big Stick,

The closest thing I have used it in, near the size of your 458 Lott would be the 444...

A cast bullet manual lists a charge of 20 grains of Unique as a load for a 525 grain bullet in a 458 Winchester Mag for an MV of 1200 fps...

so I think with the increase in size of the Lott case, the lighter bullet, and also Blue Dot being a slower burning powder than Unique, I'd actually recommend to start at 25 grains and actually work DOWN from there to the desired 20 to 21 grains...

My concern is with starting at 21 grains I'd be thinking you might not want to risk a bullet stuck in the bore, if you load does not generate enough pressure...

I think also if you have a heavier bullet, that would increase pressure some.. but the easiest is to start at around 25 to 28 grains.. and work DOWN...

All of my downloading with Blue Dot, I have started in the middle of the guestimate range, and worked up and then also worked down....

I wouldn't be concerned as much in a bottle neck case, but a straight case has less pressure, and I want to avoid that nasty stuck bullet scenario...

just my 2 cents after working with it in a lot of cases...

I really think you will be okay at 21 grs, but why risk it...25 you will be in good territory...

There is a published 45-70 blue dot load of 15 gr. pushing a 385gr. lead bullet at 1040 fps.and a chamber pressure of 8200 CUP. Your 21gr. load looks more than adequate and I doubt if you will get that lead bullet stuck in the barrel.

In the same rifle 19gr. of 2400 was producing 1070 fps. In the .458 Mag. the 385gr. bullet is driven to 1290 fps. with 30 gr. of 2400. (more info for interpulation). The 2400 testing I have done shows that it is a lot dirtier than the Blue dot. I'm confident whatever your starting load you will arrive. roger

Had a good morning of shooting. Seafire was right about working down. I wasn't able to load my rounds at the range as planned so I loaded up here at the house but didn't seat the bullet all the way into the brass in case pulling them became necessary. I did start my loads at 21 gr. and went all the way up to 40 gr. I decided to use Fed 210 Match primes instead of magnum's. I ended up stopping at 30 gr. due to recoil and velocity being a bit much for my liking. No pressure signs at 30 gr. Here are the charges and corresponding velocities.

70F, light wind, 60% humidity, partly cloudy
Lilja 26" SS barrel, Sako action

21 gr. 1364 fps
22 gr. 1367 fps
23 gr. 1414 fps
24 gr. 1490 fps
25 gr. 1514 fps
26 gr. 1581 fps
27 gr. 1621 fps
28 gr. 1652 fps
29 gr. 1693 fps
30 gr. 1716 fps

Recoil was extremely mild until the velocity got to 1500 fps, then it started to become more pronounced. Even at 21 gr., the velocity is a little higher than I would like. Next time I'm going to load 10 gr. up to 20 gr. and work my way down to 10 gr. or 1000 fps, whichever comes first. Then I will shoot some groups at 50 and 100 yards with the 1000 fps load and see what happens. Thanks for the guidance bartsche and Seafire.

I will be surprised if you don't hit your 1000fps. somewhere between 15 and 16 gr. of Blue Dot. roger

FYI

A fellow I shoot with once in a while is shooting a heavier cast bullet from his Blanchard 45-70 at 1100fps. and scoring really great at 600 yards. The velocity is correct as I measured it for him. roger

Big Stick,

Glad to be of assistance...sounds like a worthwhile project.. I have secretly been desiring something like a 416 Rigby.. I don't need one, but it is at the top of my list of calibers I don't need but sure would enjoy playing with....

Roger,

About low velocity 45/70s at long range...

I have watched some of the old geasers at the range here that shoot old 45/70s.. and they have matches out to 600 yds... using 500 plus grained bullets....

It is amazing how they drop them right in there at 600 yds....

Something truly impressive to watch... and those guys are the REAL riflemen! among us!

Finally was able to get back out to the range for round two of my Blue Dot experimenting. Here are the results.

20 gr. 1289 fps
19 gr. 1231 fps
18 gr. 1186 fps
17 gr. 1150 fps
16 gr. 1080 fps
15 gr. 1034 fps
14 gr. 978 fps
13 gr. 931 fps

Think I will start grouping the 14 gr. load and see what happens. Not sure how consistent my shot to shot velocities will be with such little powder in a large case. Recoil was nothing to speak of. Will update this post with my grouping efforts as they become available.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Stick:
Not sure how consistent my shot to shot velocities will be with such little powder in a large case. .

Look at the posting 9x41 sr7625. With even less powder the velocity variation was surprisingly low. roger