I tried a few loads with the Lee collet dies. I am getting mixed results. Most groups are passable but what the problem is, two bullets are almost in the same hole and 1 is almost a flier. I shot three or four groups last night like this. Is this a mandrell size thing? I haven't reloaded many with these dies, Does it take a bit of practice to become good at the neck sizing with these? I am shooting sub moa consistantly with my RCBS dies and Partial Resizing. I just wanted to try these and see. Thanks

Hey chain

There might be a couple of reasons.

With the collet die you have to put very close to the same amount of leverage on the ram arm every time in order to get the same amount of neck resizing. It is not just an in-and-out function like with an expander ball type.

The Lee collets usually do not put as much tension on the bullet as a regular lube-the-neck-jerk-the-expander-ball type of die.

So inconsistant neck tension may be the problem. Fortunately, this can be easily fixed by using a Lee Factory Crimp Die and putting a light to medium crimp on. That will bring your bullet release tension back to consistant.

Neck Sizing and Partial Full Length Resizing are essentially the same thing anyway.

I liked the ease of neck sizing with the Lee collet die, I also like their bullet seater. Does the crimp die change velocity at all? I might have to get one of those and try it. Thank you

my lee collet dies always give .001" neck tension,....if I need more I polish down the mandral to get another .001".

woods-

Because I just ordered a Lee collet die for my 6.5x55, I'm curious.

Is it not possible to adjust the die so that the press cams over, and thus achieve consistent neck sizing?

TIA,

flaco

As an aside, after ordering my Lee die I had second thoughts. This rifle is currently shooting well sub 1/2 MOA groups, so I'm certainly in the realm of the "Law of Diminishing Returns" when trying to improve my loads.

Still, I'll be using the Lee collet die with a new Forster Ultra seater, and imagine this will allow me some latitude and accuracy when seating rounds for different rifles.

Hey flaco

No it is not possible to adjust the Lee Collet so that is cams over. The instructions tell you not to do this. Here are some excerpts

quote:

ADJUSTMENT FOR LEE PRESSES
Screw the sizing die in until it contacts the shell holder, plus one turn more. Run a case into the die. You will feel the primer being extracted, then the lever will come to an abrupt stop. At this point, the lever must be pushed firmly (min. 25 lbs.) to close the collet and size the neck. Extra bullet grip can be obtained by screwing the die in an additional quarter-turn.
Other brands of presses that toggle or snap over center at the end of the stroke provide no feel and can damage the collet neck sizing die if adjust as above. We suggest eh die be screwed in until the die contacts the shell holder, plus 2 FULL TURNS. This will prevent the press from toggling over center and give the operator feel of the collet closing.

some more

quote:

TIGHTER BULLET FIT
As delivered from the factory the collet die will grip the bullet with a light press fit with cases of average hardness. For a tighter fit, you can anneal the case neck or polish the decapper mandrel .001 smaller. Do not go beyond .001 smaller as there will be not increase in bullet pull, and a decrease in accuracy as the bullet will then be sizing the neck as it is inserted.

quote:

I liked the ease of neck sizing with the Lee collet die, I also like their bullet seater. Does the crimp die change velocity at all? I might have to get one of those and try it. Thank you

chain, in side-by-side loaded-at-the-same-time identical loads in 10 shot groups the Lee Factory Crimp Die increased my velocity by 5.5 fps and decrease my group size by 1/8". That is with a light crimp with 168 gr TSX's in 300 win mag. I think a light crimp will help with consistant bullet release.

In every caliber I load for I try to have 4 dies: Lee Collet Neck Sizer, Redding Body Die, RCBS Competition Seater and Lee Factory Crimp Die. Some calibers don't have the Lee Collet like 264 win mag and I hate to load for that one and have all that messey lube in the neck!

I just set the die up the other night and I don't remember the lever coming to an abrupt stop when the primer is ejected. I did push the lever till it hit the stops though. I think I will get a crimp die also, I hate the lube too. Thanks

Try sizing twice. Size once & turn 90deg then size again. It seems to help uniformity.

Woods, the excerpt you posted from the collet die's instructions only applys to a Rock Chucker type press that toggles over just prior to full stroke. I have a Lee press and use the collet dies all the time with out issue in the manner described by Flaco.
I have had excellent results with lee collet dies from a consistancy and run out standpoint.

Incedently if you have a rock chucker type press you can still use the collet dies in the manner described by Flaco. you just have to be carefull that you dont but to much pressure on the die as it will pop the alloy cap off the top of the sizer.

quote:

Originally posted by Ben Walker:
Woods, the excerpt you posted from the collet die's instructions only applys to a Rock Chucker type press that toggles over just prior to full stroke. I have a Lee press and use the collet dies all the time with out issue in the manner described by Flaco.
I have had excellent results with lee collet dies from a consistancy and run out standpoint.

The excerpt I posted gave instructions for both the Lee presses and others. I have an RCBS press and just set the lock nut at the top of the threads. This extends the press arm almost horizontally and then I put some body weight on the arm to close the collet being careful not to put too much and trying to put the same amount of weight every time.

I always adjust my press so it cams over for consistent neck tension with Lee collet dies even though it's not recommended by Lee. I adjust the press in increments until it sizes the neck enough to hold a bullet firmly and no more. I haven't wrecked a die yet.

quote:

Originally posted by chain:
...I am shooting sub moa consistantly with my RCBS dies and Partial Resizing. ...

Hey Chain, Read that a couple of times, sit back and have a bit of Liquid Corn. "Think about it", have a bit more Liquid Corn and then:


1. Box up the Lee Collet Dies with the Stoney Point "thingy"(if you have one).

2. Consume 1/2 the bottle of Liquid Corn.

3 Hide the box with the Collet Die and "thingy" REALLY well, so no one can possibly find them.

4. Complete the remainder of the Liquid Corn.

5. Sleep late and have the Alarm/Radio turned off.

6. Take a few Aspirin when you make it out of bed, take a shower and if you "hid" the box well enough, the problems will be gone.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
I always adjust my press so it cams over for consistent neck tension with Lee collet dies even though it's not recommended by Lee. I adjust the press in increments until it sizes the neck enough to hold a bullet firmly and no more. I haven't wrecked a die yet.

That's the way I have my Lee collet dies setup in my Dillon RL550B. I also use the, size-turn 180 degrees-size again technique. I use an electric engraver to make a reference mark on the case body next to the extractor groove.

quote:

Originally posted by chain:
I think I will get a crimp die also, I hate the lube too. Thanks

Hey chain, read that again and realize that you can still shoot sub moa groups using the Lee Collet and without lube.

Hey HC

Sounds like you have already been in the liquid corn! PM me your address and I'll send you a Stoney Point, Collet Die, Bore Snake and OCW target for Halloween. Anything else you want in the box?

quote:

Sounds like you have already been in the liquid corn! PM me your address and I'll send you a Stoney Point, Collet Die, Bore Snake and OCW target for Halloween. Anything else you want in the box?

Don`t over load his system sending too much at once. You might bump him out of his rut with the "old tried and true" ways..

BTW, I`m another that sets the collet die deep and uses "feel" to size my case necks.- This is in a Lyman Orange Crusher.- I use to set up with the press camming over but found it was faster for me to simply screw in the die and size. You can only apply so much neck compression to the case no matter how you set the die and once you get the feel they come out pretty consistant IMO

Edited to add; That is only so much compression with out damaging the die.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
... I'll send you a Stoney Point, Collet Die, Bore Snake and OCW target for Halloween. Anything else you want in the box?

Hey Woods, They sure don't make "good friends" like you anymore.

That is a fairly good list as is.

Huuuuummmmm, maybe some "Constantly Warping Termite Food Stocks", on ANY (rag) M70s(in constantly rusting blue, of course) and a REALLLLY expensive chronograph.

Welllll, gooooood gosh, nearly forgot the best one of ALL - a HSGS which is colloquially known as Reloader's Pyrite(aka Fool's Gold!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by chain:
...I am shooting sub moa consistantly with my RCBS dies and Partial Resizing. ...

Hey Chain, Read that a couple of times, sit back and have a bit of Liquid Corn. "Think about it", have a bit more Liquid Corn and then:


1. Box up the Lee Collet Dies with the Stoney Point "thingy"(if you have one).

2. Consume 1/2 the bottle of Liquid Corn.

3 Hide the box with the Collet Die and "thingy" REALLY well, so no one can possibly find them.

4. Complete the remainder of the Liquid Corn.

5. Sleep late and have the Alarm/Radio turned off.

6. Take a few Aspirin when you make it out of bed, take a shower and if you "hid" the box well enough, the problems will be gone.

Simply put, if it ain't broke don't try to fix it!

All good advice. I have finished a batch of reloads for my hunt in MT. I reviewed what I was doing, I like the way I am shooting groups, I need to re barrel to get more speed. I have enough ammom to get me thru the hunting season easilly. So I thought what am I doing that I don't care for. It was the lube process I also have reservations about the wear and tear on the brass as opposed to just neck sizing with the collet dies. If I can not acheive the same degree of accuracy with the collet die or better I will continue as I am. I think I need to work on the neck tensioning process or get a crimp die. The groups I was shooting from these loads were alot like some groups where I had the bullet seated way out there. They seem like they have the wher with all to shoot pretty tight groups if I can figure it out. Thanks Guys

I'm almost certain that Lee guarantees tighter groups with their collet dies or return them for a refund.

Camming over: It is a VERY good idea to set your Collet die so that the press cams over, but not so deep that in doing so the press exerts excessive pressure on the die. Lee's instructions are to prevent the excessive pressure that can be exerted by some presses that reach almost infinite mechanical advantage at the cam over point. Not only can the aluminum top plug be popped out, but the base of the collet itself, which is of only marginally hardened steel, will be braded and deformed by the excessive force. However, if you back the die off so that the pressure at the cam-over point is firm, but not excessive, then you'll get very consistent neck tensions.

Rotating the case: I find that a partial rotation of the case and a second run into the collet does provide slightly greater and more consistent neck tension. HOWEVER, the amount of rotation should not be 90 or 180 degrees, which will just put the four-petal collet back in the same tracks, but should rather be just 45 degrees, which will place the collet petals on top of the unsized intervals between the previous collet petal locations and result in a true second sizing.

The Lee Collet dies is inexpensively but cleverly made. At first blush one would wish that the product were made from better steel and with real locking rings and a steel top plug. But to do so would probably more than double its cost, and as it is, they're so cheap you can afford to just buy a new one when the old one wears out.

When reloading for bolt guns Lee collet dies are pretty much all I use and have so for years.
I have Redding neck dies as well, but orefer the Lee collet.