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SEATING BULLETS STRAIGHTLY
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Picture of 303Guy
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I was asked to pass this on to as many folks as possible so here it is! It makes sense to me. thumb
quote:

by John Barsness


IF WE WANT to get the most accuracy out of our rifle, the bullets in our handloads must be seated straight. If not, then all the rest of the steps are pretty much wasted effort.

We want straight ammo because a bullet that starts down the bore at an angle also tends to leave the muzzle at an angle. Now, all bullets "precess" as they leave the muzzle, meaning they aren't spinning perfectly point-on. Instead the tip of the bullet wobbles like a pass thrown by a 10-year-old quarterback. Normally this precessing soon stops, calmed by the spinning of the bullet.

A bullet that leaves the muzzle with its point off-center tends to precess more wildly, and sometimes never does calm down all the way. Plus, the bullet may even be deformed by starting down the bore slightly sideways. Neither helps accuracy.

In handloading "straight" means the center of the bullet lines up with the center of the case. Now, there are degrees of straight. For anything short of a dedicated benchrest rifle, we simply are not going to be able to seat every bullet "perfectly" straight. With typical varmint and hunting rifles this doesn't really matter, because the tolerances in their chambers are a little loose, even in custom rifles, in order to allow functioning in the field. So what we're really trying for is pretty darn straight, a technical term meaning "as good as it gets."

When loading for big game rifles, bullet "run-out" of no more than about .005", as measured a tenth of an inch in front of the case mouth, generally obtains all the accuracy possible from a typical factory big-game rifle. With custom rifles, or factory varmint rifles, .002" is a worthy goal. I own one heavy-barrel Remington 700 chambered for the .223 Remington that's capable of putting five shots into ¼ inch or even a little less at 100 yards, when good bullets are seated with no more than .002" runout. Varmint accuracy just doesn't get much better than that, especially without a super-shooter on the trigger.

We can test ammunition for straightness without any fancy tools. A small wall mirror or even a very smooth tabletop will reveal any run-out over .005". Just roll a case across the surface, and if you can see the bullet "wobble," then run-out is more than .005".

But this only tells us if bullets are seated straight after the fact. We need to know a couple of other things before we seat bullets.

First, we need to know if the wall thickness in the necks of our brass is reasonably even all the way around, within .001" or so. If not, a seated bullet is going to be off-center in the case. Wall thickness is easily measured with tools, but can also be seen. If we place our cases in a loading block, then look directly down at them, any significant unevenness in neck-wall thickness can be spotted. (A magnifying glass helps, but I'm nearsighted so don't need one. I just take off my glasses.)

Next, we need to get the neck of the case straight before we seat the bullet. The big problem here is that the common design of resizing die features an "expander ball." because commercial brass tends to differ in neck thickness, not just from brand to brand but from case to case. In a typical sizing die the neck is first sized smaller than it needs to be. Then, when the case is pulled out of the die, the expander ball "bumps" the inside of the neck up to the correct dimension for holding a bullet.

This is fine, except that pulling the neck over the expander ball can also pull the neck of the case off-center with the case body, partly because the case can tip slightly in the shellholder. Note the word "can." Many full-length dies will size cases pretty straightly, with no more than .002" neck run-out. But if they don't, then various techniques can help us do better.

First, we can polish the expander ball, or substitute a carbide ball. Either helps the ball slip through the neck more easily.

Second, we can first size all the cases without the expander-ball assembly, then push the expander ball through the neck of each case. But when we push the case up into the die, over the ball, the bottom of the shellholder pushes squarely against the base of the case, and the expander balls centers the neck. (Here decapping, however, has to be done in a separate step.)

Third, we can buy a die that doesn't feature an expander ball. These squeeze the case neck from the outside, rather than expanding it from the inside. Lee Collet dies and Redding "S" dies are examples. The Lee die will work on any neck thickness, while the Redding dies require the correct bushing for different neck thicknesses. Both work very well.

Another helpful technique is case-mouth chamfering. Most of us do this anyway, unless we're using boattailed bullets, but the common tool for the job puts a fairly steep chamfer inside the mouth. Much better is a very gentle taper, allowing the bullet to slide easily into the neck. Tools for the job are available in various catalogs.

Many handloading articles suggest seating each bullet only about halfway, then turning the case 180 degrees before finishing seating. I have tested this a number of times and my run-out tool never indicated much difference. What made a real difference was using a dedicated, precision seating die. These have closer tolerances, especially inside the "neck" of the die, where the bullet fits as it's being seated.

If the bullet must be crimped, make this a separate step, since crimping as the bullet's being seated can also knock the bullet out of alignment. First, adjust the die to crimp the case mouth, per the instructions. Next, back the seating die out of the press very slightly, and seat all the bullets to the correct depth. Then remove the seating stem from the die, run the die all the way into the press, and crimp all the rounds.

You'll eventually notice that some bullets tend to seat straighter than others. In general, boattailed hunting bullets often seat straighter than many flat-base bullets. I suspect this is one reason why some rifles appear to "like" one bullet more than others. It's also probably the reason many hunters think boattails are more accurate, when in reality flat-bases tend to shoot a little better-if both are seated straight.

Even with al these steps, a few rounds will end up with slightly unacceptable run-out. I correct these with a series of holes drilled in the 2x6 that form the face of my loading bench. These holes are just about the size of bullets from .22 to .45 in diameter. If a bullet is seated a little out of round, I push the bullet into the correct hole and "bend" it back into alignment.

All of these steps will do as much for accuracy as all other handloading steps combined.

###
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303Guy
 
Posts: 2518 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 October 2007Reply With Quote
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Picture of hivelosity
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i ALMOST AGREED WITH HIM EXCEPT... this part..,
Even with al these steps, a few rounds will end up with slightly unacceptable run-out. I correct these with a series of holes drilled in the 2x6 that form the face of my loading bench. These holes are just about the size of bullets from .22 to .45 in diameter. If a bullet is seated a little out of round, I push the bullet into the correct hole and "bend" it back into alignment.
 
Posts: 2134 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 26 June 2000Reply With Quote
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John also wrote a couple of excellent articles on accuracy several years ago. They were an education for me and directed me toward advanced handloading. The second one pertains to ammo.

www.24hourcampfire.com/reloading.html

The first article is also available on the site.


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Posts: 1184 | Registered: 21 April 2007Reply With Quote
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Picture of 303Guy
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Why would you disagree with him, hivelosity? I'm not saying I do agree with him, in fact, it seems a bit Heath Robinson to me, but if it works for him .... ? I would pull those 'slightly out' loads and start again.


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303Guy
 
Posts: 2518 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 October 2007Reply With Quote
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Picture of hivelosity
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I disagree because if your loads are cocked to that extreme you have to streighten them you really should look in to you set up. something is way wrong.
I pretty much use collet dies and have very little runout problems and eveen though with some of the other set ups and fl resizind=g or neck sizing operations I still do not feel the need to move he bullet around to achieve a streight load.
Ole ken Waters would roll over in his grave if he john was spuin out that crap.
 
Posts: 2134 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 26 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Picture of ted thorn
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I have heard friends tell me they have no run out isues. That thier ammo is strait. Then I spin a couple of the rounds they make under an indicator and watch thier face change.

Most people dont measure thier ammo in this manner but if you do you will find 25% runs out more than .005 TIR


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Posts: 7361 | Location: South East Missouri | Registered: 23 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of mike_elmer
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I have had good results by rotating the cartridge while seating. But, in this article, he mentions seating the bullet half-way down the neck before turning the case. I cannot see how that would work. I rotate as I am starting the bullet, and rotate approx. 1/3 turn a few times, so that by the time I am ready to press it home, I am still less than 1/2 way down the neck.

I guess I will have to buy a concentricity guage sometime to really check my method. I might be pissers in the wind. Still, it makes sense that it should work if done properly.


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Posts: 8421 | Location: adamstown, pa | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Hey 303Guy, I've never checked "Run Out" on any of my Cartridges. Without bothering to do it, all of my Centerfires(except the 444Mar which is relatively new) will shoot in the 6s - when my concentration is up.

I feel sure age and a severe lack of Trigger Time are the limiting factors in my ability to shoot smaller groups. Still P-FLR and am happy with the 6s.

I know a lot of folks put great effort into having absolutely straight Seated Bullets and then let the Case lie on the bottom of the Chamber so it is NOT aligned with the Lead. Or pushed sideways by the Ejector.

quote:
From the Barsness article:
In handloading "straight" means the center of the bullet lines up with the center of the case.
It seems to me that having the CenterLine of the Bullet in line with the CenterLine of the Bore is of greater benefit to my groups. I check this every few years by doing a Blind Shooting Comparison between P-FLR and NS Cartridges. But, I never check for Run Out, so that could be a contributing factor on the NS Cartridges being slightly less accurate.
-----

quote:
...because the case can tip slightly in the shellholder. Note the word "can."
Anybody seen this? Makes me wonder what causes what he believes is happening; 1.CaseHead Bent? 2. Shell Holder cut skewed?

If the Shell Holder was cut skewed on the Top of the slot, why wouldn't the Bottom be skewed as well?

Do you all think this is a Case or Shell Holder problem he is mentioning? Or full of beans?
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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I agree that the runnout thing is somewhat over rated. I see all the time where people go on and on that if they don't have perfectly straight ammo their group sizes double. Although I try to make straight ammo cause consistancy sure can't hurt I'm a believer that 95% of your accuracy comes from how much your gun likes a bullet, the seat depth, and the powder underneath it.
Over at long range forums there is a guy forming brass for his 338 edge. When he forms his brass his first batchs have .025 runnout...yes .025---the result is his highly accurized rig still shoots 3/4" 300 yds groups. As a matter of fact he says he can't see a diff between the stuff that needs fireforming and straight casings!
 
Posts: 2002 | Location: central wi | Registered: 13 September 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of hivelosity
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for the most part if you have a serious run out problem it usually can be traced to case prep and bullet seating. If there is a problem after fire forming cases then you may have a chamber problem.
nature of the beast is the case will be a little heavier on one side to the other. I have a friend that notches the rim on his cases so he can rechamber the case in the exact same orentation. he is convinced that will center the brass in that chamber from now on. is he right?
I cant be bothered my self, but he shoots some pretty impressive groups at 600 yrds.
There is a tool Ive seen called a Bersin tool looks impressive. it may be the answer to runout. like Ted ssaid no matter how you roll em your goina see some wobble.
Dave
 
Posts: 2134 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 26 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Hornady is coming out with a new tool that will sell for about $100. It will do your runnout and then there is a small knob or crank that you can push the neck or bullet back into alignnment right on the same rack that you just did your measuring.
For my purposes I have converted several of my favorite cartridges over to using the lee collet die and a redding body die......you really have to have something wrong to come up with loaded ammo over .003" runnout and most is about .001". I don't ever bother checking runnout made with that settup anymore.
 
Posts: 2002 | Location: central wi | Registered: 13 September 2002Reply With Quote
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