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I was asked to pass this on to as many folks as possible so here it is! It makes sense to me.
Regards 303Guy | ||
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i ALMOST AGREED WITH HIM EXCEPT... this part.., Even with al these steps, a few rounds will end up with slightly unacceptable run-out. I correct these with a series of holes drilled in the 2x6 that form the face of my loading bench. These holes are just about the size of bullets from .22 to .45 in diameter. If a bullet is seated a little out of round, I push the bullet into the correct hole and "bend" it back into alignment. | |||
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John also wrote a couple of excellent articles on accuracy several years ago. They were an education for me and directed me toward advanced handloading. The second one pertains to ammo. www.24hourcampfire.com/reloading.html The first article is also available on the site. ________________________ "Every country has the government it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre | |||
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Why would you disagree with him, hivelosity? I'm not saying I do agree with him, in fact, it seems a bit Heath Robinson to me, but if it works for him .... ? I would pull those 'slightly out' loads and start again. Regards 303Guy | |||
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I disagree because if your loads are cocked to that extreme you have to streighten them you really should look in to you set up. something is way wrong. I pretty much use collet dies and have very little runout problems and eveen though with some of the other set ups and fl resizind=g or neck sizing operations I still do not feel the need to move he bullet around to achieve a streight load. Ole ken Waters would roll over in his grave if he john was spuin out that crap. | |||
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I have heard friends tell me they have no run out isues. That thier ammo is strait. Then I spin a couple of the rounds they make under an indicator and watch thier face change. Most people dont measure thier ammo in this manner but if you do you will find 25% runs out more than .005 TIR ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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I have had good results by rotating the cartridge while seating. But, in this article, he mentions seating the bullet half-way down the neck before turning the case. I cannot see how that would work. I rotate as I am starting the bullet, and rotate approx. 1/3 turn a few times, so that by the time I am ready to press it home, I am still less than 1/2 way down the neck. I guess I will have to buy a concentricity guage sometime to really check my method. I might be in the wind. Still, it makes sense that it should work if done properly. ______________________________ Well, they really aren't debates... more like horse and pony shows... without the pony... just the whores. 1955, Top tax rate, 92%... unemployment, 4%. "Beware of the Free Market. There are only two ways you can make that work. Either you bring the world's standard of living up to match ours, or lower ours to meet their's. You know which way it will go." by My Great Grandfather, 1960 Protection for Monsanto is Persecution of Farmers. | |||
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Hey 303Guy, I've never checked "Run Out" on any of my Cartridges. Without bothering to do it, all of my Centerfires(except the 444Mar which is relatively new) will shoot in the 6s - when my concentration is up. I feel sure age and a severe lack of Trigger Time are the limiting factors in my ability to shoot smaller groups. Still P-FLR and am happy with the 6s. I know a lot of folks put great effort into having absolutely straight Seated Bullets and then let the Case lie on the bottom of the Chamber so it is NOT aligned with the Lead. Or pushed sideways by the Ejector. It seems to me that having the CenterLine of the Bullet in line with the CenterLine of the Bore is of greater benefit to my groups. I check this every few years by doing a Blind Shooting Comparison between P-FLR and NS Cartridges. But, I never check for Run Out, so that could be a contributing factor on the NS Cartridges being slightly less accurate. ----- Anybody seen this? Makes me wonder what causes what he believes is happening; 1.CaseHead Bent? 2. Shell Holder cut skewed? If the Shell Holder was cut skewed on the Top of the slot, why wouldn't the Bottom be skewed as well? Do you all think this is a Case or Shell Holder problem he is mentioning? Or full of beans? | |||
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I agree that the runnout thing is somewhat over rated. I see all the time where people go on and on that if they don't have perfectly straight ammo their group sizes double. Although I try to make straight ammo cause consistancy sure can't hurt I'm a believer that 95% of your accuracy comes from how much your gun likes a bullet, the seat depth, and the powder underneath it. Over at long range forums there is a guy forming brass for his 338 edge. When he forms his brass his first batchs have .025 runnout...yes .025---the result is his highly accurized rig still shoots 3/4" 300 yds groups. As a matter of fact he says he can't see a diff between the stuff that needs fireforming and straight casings! | |||
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for the most part if you have a serious run out problem it usually can be traced to case prep and bullet seating. If there is a problem after fire forming cases then you may have a chamber problem. nature of the beast is the case will be a little heavier on one side to the other. I have a friend that notches the rim on his cases so he can rechamber the case in the exact same orentation. he is convinced that will center the brass in that chamber from now on. is he right? I cant be bothered my self, but he shoots some pretty impressive groups at 600 yrds. There is a tool Ive seen called a Bersin tool looks impressive. it may be the answer to runout. like Ted ssaid no matter how you roll em your goina see some wobble. Dave | |||
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Hornady is coming out with a new tool that will sell for about $100. It will do your runnout and then there is a small knob or crank that you can push the neck or bullet back into alignnment right on the same rack that you just did your measuring. For my purposes I have converted several of my favorite cartridges over to using the lee collet die and a redding body die......you really have to have something wrong to come up with loaded ammo over .003" runnout and most is about .001". I don't ever bother checking runnout made with that settup anymore. | |||
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