A recently deceased friend left me a Martini Cadet in .22 Ackley Hornet. He used to tell me he got 3/4 MOA accuracy from it, but I haven't found anything that will shoot smaller than about 1.5 MOA for 5 shots at 100 yards from it.

Any suggestions? Anybody use any ball powders in it? What do you recommend for bullet weight/make? Do primers seem to make any difference in this cartriddge? (I've tried WSR and Fed 205-M.)

Has it got a .223" or a .224" barrel on it?

Steve - it's got a relatively new .224" barrel, but I don't know of which manufacture. The rifle was "built" (in this configuration) in 1998.

AC: May want to determine the barrel twist, in case it is faster than the typical 1:16, which pretty much limits the Hornet to 45gr or less pills. If 1:14 or faster, maybe try some 50 grainers.
Tips for tweaking the Hornet include using pistol primers, neck sizing via the collet die method, and the use of LilGun powder, which has been the Holy Grail for many Hornet owners.

Of course, your gun may not care for any above tips....

PS: is it an Ackley Hornet, not a K-Hornet?

Good catch, Mulerider- actually it may be a K-Hornet. Though there may not be much difference between a Kilbourn Hornet and an Ackley Hornet, I suppose there is some...

I particlularly like the idea of the Li'l Gun as a powder to try. Will have to give that a go.

I've already tried bullets from 37 grs. to 55 grs., with major emphasis on 45 grs. None seem to be much different from the others, so maybe the powder is the problem. Haven't tried pistol primers either, but with the easily expanded primer pockets of the Hornet cases, am not quite sure if I want to get into that. Have you any reports of pistol primers perforating in the Hornets they were used in?

Pistol primers have never been a plus for my loads/accuracy, but I had no issues with leakers or punctures. Some swear by them.
The single most measurable improvement was using the collet die.
Also recommended, but w/o benefit in my rifles, was using a light crimp on the Hornet. Supposed to lower the velocity SD.
Hornets...loved and hated by many.

quote:

Originally posted by Mulerider:

Hornets...loved and hated by many.

Great "tag-line"!

I am one of the many, I guess.

I had a M54 Deluxe that was really, truly a dependable sub-MOA Hornet. Also had a BSA bolt action that shot sub-MOA most of the time. So did my Savage Model 19-H. My Savage Model 219 did it once in a while.

Every other Hornet I have ever owned, including two Anshutzes, two other Martinis in that chambering (one a beautiful Francotte), a TC-'83, a Savage 23-D, three petite Brnos, and several others, are all gone because they shot so erratically I learned to hate the sight of them. Sure hope this Martini doesn't end up in that latter group....

quote:

Hornets...loved and hated by many.

I dug out and dusted off my old P.O Ackley Volume I.

He used 40, 45, 50 and 55 gr. bullets.

And for powders he used Hercules 2400, Dupont 4227, and Dupont 4198 (now known as Alliant 2400, IMR-4227 and IMR-4198 respectively.

He used all three powders in bullets from 40-50gr. But he used only the slower burning 4227 and 4198 for the 55 gr. bullet.

I would recommend you find the twist of your rifle 1:14" or 1:16". You might have the older 1:16" twist. And 45 gr. and lighter will give best accuracy.

What powders and loads have you tried so far?

1.5" isn't too bad. I think you are on the right track!

Do not sell that Martini! It would make me cry....... unless you sell it to me!

Thanks everyone.

I too have Ackley's books, but I don't use his data, particularly his max data for the Hornet. P.O. was a local gunsmith here, and as nice a guy as you'd ever want to meet. Helped me start my first gunsmithing shop in 1961. Still, most of his Hornet and other data was gathered from other shooters/experimenters, and a lot of it is very old...concocted well before chronographs and pressure gauges were commonly available to gunsmiths or anyone else outside the major labs/factories

In the days when his reported Hornet data was "worked up", I believe most Hornet cases were of the "balloon-head" type, not the solid-head variety. Essentially that means the Hornet case capacity was greater by about one grain of 2400 powder than today's cases can usually use. It's not that the powder won't fit in the current cases, but that the pressure developed may often expand the primer pockets to the point where primers are loose in reloaded rounds.

It was also the day when 1.5" 5-shot 100-yard groups were considered pretty decent accuracy for any rifle. Not in my eyes, today, though...especially not for a varmint cartridge of marginal killing/ranging power. I don't want to shoot at any living creature with any load that is just sorta so-so accuracy-wise.

So, think I'll try the collet die and Li'l Gun tricks and see if they help.

Thanks again.....


(P.S.to DaMan - will give you right of first refusal if I decide not to keep this one.....)

AC, I don't think the Hornet case ever used a 'balloon type' head. (Maybe you're thinking of the .22WCF)

Yup, some of Ackley's data is HOT. That's why I didn't post his loads..... just the powders he used.

There are also a lot of new powders available that weren't around when Ackley was working up his data for the K-Hornet.

You seem determined to go with Lil' Gun. Should be a good powder. At least it provides the highest velocities in the K-Hornet. But, as you know, highest velocity does not always equal best accuracy.

What loads have you tried so far?

You still haven't mentioned what twist you have.

Are you using spitzer or hornet type bullets?

Here's a selection of K-Hornet loads (Hornady bullets):

.22 K-Hornet Data

I have a 20" SS Bullberry 22K HORNET barrel for a T/C Contender. A friend of mine shot it Friday with factory ammo ( Horn.35gr V MAX ) & from a benched rest put 8 out of 10 shots in a ragged hole. Thats with a clunker scope he had laying around.
I bought Redding dies & 35gr VMAX bullet heads -I have 296-AA1680-& I bought LIL GUN- if you have any data available you know works I'd appreciate the help.I do like to zip them along but faster is not always the most accurate. PO ACKLEY data is out for me in this setup.
Thank you in advance for your help.
SOUP

35 V-Max:

W-296 Start-10.0gr @ 2,700 Max-13.2 @ 3,200

AA1680 Start-13.3gr @ 2,700 Max-15.6 @ 3,100

Lil Gun Start-10.2 @ 2,700 Max-14.0 @ 3,200

Remember! When sizing the K-Hornet, DO NOT PUSH THE SHOULDER BACK!

The original Hornet uses the rim to set head space...... the K-Hornet uses the SHOULDER of the case to headspace.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am not DETERMINED to go with Li'l Gun. I AM determined to try it, as it was one of the suggestions one of the other posters listed here, which I have never used.

So far I have tried Hornady 35 gr. V-Max, 40 gr. Sierras, 52 gr. Sierra BTs, 53 gr. Sierras, 40 & 45 gr. Herter's (of which I still have many thousand), bullets of my own make from 38-60 grains weight, and several others. I have tried IMR 4227, Hercules (mine is STILL Hercules) 2400, W-296, Blue Dot, AA 1680, AA 2000, and several other powders which are definitely no longer available.

In the early 30's, some Hornet cases were of ballon-head construction, or at least some of the ones I have had were. After WW-II, as far as I know they were all solid-head cases, but early on they were not. As I'd guess you all recall, the Hornet was developed from the .22 WCF, which was a balloon-head case, and that didn't change instantly.

As far as my rifle barrel twist, I do not plan to go measure it anytime soon. If the twist is too slow for even the 35 gr. bullets I'm trying, then it's a useless barrel (for my purposes).

I do appreciate all of the comments here, particularly the things that had never occured to me to try, like a collet die, Li'l Gun powder, etc. If none of them work, I think I'll restock the gun. I am not too favorably impressed with the appearance of either the buttstock or forend work on this one anyway. Thanks to you all.

AC

Different types of "Hornets"







My favorite load is:
Bullet: Sierra 50 Grain Blitz
Powder: 11.5 grains of IMR-4227
Primer: Remington 6-1/2
Case: Remington
Firearm: Ruger 77/22H
Optics: Leupold 2x7
Velocity: 2623 FPS @ 15' from muzzle
Accuracy: 5-shots, 100-yards, <1.0"