This beauty needs to perform to it's potential since my 7mm Rem Mag will push a 140gr @ 3350 FPS with RL22.



It is a 26" 1-8 twist.

So far I am getting my best results with 64.5gr RL25, but that puts me in the 3100 FPS range. I used to get 3250 FPS easy with another 264 WM years ago with H870. But I don't have any H870 anymore When I ran out of H870 with that rifle I used 64gr RL25 @3090 FPS in that one with good accuracy.

Groups seem to open up @ 65gr RL25

I am 10 thousandths off the lands

So you 264 fans need to help me out. I am especially interested to see if anyone is using Retumbo or US869 with favorable results.

First off if you are getting 3350 from a 7mag with 140s you are living right. I have to push my 26" STW to get 3400.

In case you haven't read them there are several threads in the small caliber forum discussing trying to get the most froma 264. Here is one of them.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...6711043/m/5621029211

There are several others if you do a search.

I understand that the new Speer manual lists US869 with a 140gr. If someone with that manual could post that data I appreciate it.

Also if there is Retumbo data for the same grain bullet.

The best powder that I have tried in my 264Win is H1000. I am getting 2950 ft/sec with 160 grain Hornady RN bullets. I feel that any powder faster than this just doesn't give the potential this cartridge is capable of.

RL-25 is too fast for the .264 using 140's. FRom the data I've seen, Retumbo is also too fast.

My prefered powder is surplus WC-872, but it is hard to find these days. US 869 appears to be very similar to WC-872, so I would certainly give it a try. Either WC-872 or US 869 will use virtually a case full. Simply start a few grains low and work up.

AA 8700 is very close to the old H-870. It is faster than WC-872 or US 869 but is slow enough to do reasonably well with 140's.

I found AA 8700 didn't work well in my last 264. That powder like H870 is now discontinued

I have a friend lending me some Retumbo to try out. I also have IMR7828 I could try.

I know I can get through the season with RL25 as it is lots accurate enough. Just trying to find some more speed for this old pony.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
First off if you are getting 3350 from a 7mag with 140s you are living right. I have to push my 26" STW to get 3400.

I do plan to load down a bit as I don't want it running quite that fast. 3200 FPS is lots fast enough out of a 7mm.

quote:

I have a friend lending me some Retumbo to try out. I also have IMR7828 I could try.

Both too fast, you'll be disappointed.

WC-872 yields 3150 from my 24.4 inch Sako and 3250 from my 26 inch Sako with 140's. Find some of it or some US 869 if you want to play in the big leagues.

I never had too much luck (in terms of accuracy) with H870. However, the also obsolete H-570 which had an almost identical burning rate, and kernals the size of young fireplace logs, provided fine accuracy with high and consistent velocities.

By the way, while you can certainly drive a 140 grain bullet somewhat faster using the .264 case necked up a half millimeter, the .284" bullet has less sectional density and a lower ballistic coefficient than the .264" bullet of the same weight. The .264 will catch up with it in a few hundred yards, will have less wind deflection, and will exhibit greater penetration, all things being equal.

If you want to have a fair test between the two cartridges, you'll have to use a 160 grainer in your 7mm to approximately equal the 6.5's sectional density. When you do that, you'll have less velocity, a more arched trajectory, and more recoil. Nothing is to say that the 7mm is a poor cartridge, only that there are no free lunches.

US869 is probably what I will use when I can get some.

H870 was very accurate with 140's in my last 264 & would drive them in the 3250 FPS range. Unfortunately I have no more H870.

I had no luck with AA 8700 with my last one & have none of that to try either.

The 64.5gr RL25 has given me great accuracy and a very small velocity spread. 64gr RL25 was my go to load with my last 264 when I ran out of H870. It does not yield as much speed, but has worked out quite well in the past. Plus I have lots of it.

You are probably right in assuming I won't gain much if any with Retumbo or IMR7828, but it is what I have at my disposal until I can get some US869. With the clock ticking I got to try all my options.

If I have to live with RL25 for the season I'm OK with that, the US869 testing can begin next year.

I had a pound & got rid of it when I got rid of the 264. I wish I still had it now.

Well Stonecreek you were right, I was disappointed

Well I am going in the wrong direction I have gone to worse not to better. My rifle does not like Retumbo at all. Started at 64gr & worked up to 66gr. Definite pressure signs at 66gr. 64gr was the most accurate, but is was only a 1 1/2 group with speed just under 3100 FPS. 66gr groups were in the 4" range I did like the speed there (3180 FPS), but with pressure signs & 4" groups that's not going to work.

The barrel seems to be very dirty this time with Retumbo powder. The RL25 was much cleaner. The first 2 patches were black!

I can get some US869 on the 18th of this month, but I am not sure if that will help?

On a + side the 7mm I built for Dad shot a 1/2 inch group with 67gr RL22 @3250 FPS. So that rifle is ready to go. Maybe I'll give him the 264 & keep the 7mm for myself (LOL)!!!

So after a few trips to the range I am finding the 64.5gr of RL25 seems to be my best accuracy/speed combo. I am at a average of 3116 FPS.

I fired 7 consecutive rounds with the lowest @ 3102 FPS & 3126 FPS being the highest. All 7 rounds were just over a MOA, so I am thinking seating depth is my next step. I know I am just off the lands right now. I don't have a competition seater, so I don't know exactly how far off I am?

What is the best way to play with seating depth to find the sweet spot & tighten your groups up?

On another note a few mentioned trying 130gr bullets which I have also. I found 64gr RL25 to be the best with those as well. Average speed was 3123 FPS. These also grouped in almost exact POI as the 140's right around a MOA. Stepping up to 65gr RL25 caused groups to open up considerably (just like the 140's with 65gr) & averaged 3189 FPS with a top speed of 3211 FPS.

It's looking like the 3100 FPS range is where this rifle likes to shoot the best?

So advice on how to further tighten these groups would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Wookie, my 264 shoots best with the 125-130 bullets. I tried them all and that just works best, but mine is a 1:9 twist. That is not to say the 140s shot badly, but the lighter bullets are just preferred.

As to OAL, I started off the lands and found that in my rifle with the "standard" chamber (which means the rifling pretty much starts at the case mouth), it prefers to be touching the lands. I do not shoot hot loads like you do, but for accuracy IN MY RIFLE, I have the bullets just touch the lands. OK, actually I seat the bullet to 3.34"OAL and let the throat push the bullet back into the case. It works for both the 129 Hornady and the 125 Partition. They usually end up right at 3.29".

As with everything, start low and work up.

Hey Wookie,

Try US-869 with the 140's and the 129-130's, try Winchester 780 with the 129-130's.


You'll get 3200fps with the 140's and over 3300fps with the lighter pills..........I did a lot of testing.

Another thing I discovered and that you have touched on. The .264WM has no freebore or throat (very little, if any). I'm having mine re-barreled right now and having some throat put in it to make room in the case for more of those great slow burning powders. At an OAL for the cartridge of 3.4" the base of most of the bullets I like ends up at the neck/shoulder junction.

With the slower powders, you'll need as much room in the case as possible. I'd take your rifle to your local hot shot gunsmith and have him put some throat in it........

As far as seating depth, there are a lot of good threads here on the forum and methods that don't cost anything you can find on the internet (I use the "cleaning rod" method") to determine your maximum overall cartridge length for your rifle. To find the most accurate load's depth, you'll just have to shoot a few at each depth and see!

Yeah mine was throat-ed longer than the SAAMI spec 264 reamer. It fits Sierra HPBT & Amax nice, but could be longer for the Accubonds as they have less taper on the bullet.

Question for 6.5mm 264 shooters. Right now I am @ 3.440 COL with a 130/140gr Accubond & could go all the way out to 3.600 in the mag box & still feed properly. Being the 6.5mm is such a long bullet, would I be at an advantage having the barrel throated longer to seat the bullet out farther. These are the bullets I plan to shoot, & I hope to use US869 powder when I get my hands on some. I have to make a trip to my smith next week & he say he has time to throat the barrel. I am wondering if it would be $ well spent.



Thanks.

I wouldn't do it, but then again I am cheap.

A 140 gr bullet in the 264 likely won`t reach the same velocity that a 140 in a 7mm will all else equal. Both cases are the same, just a difference in bore size which doesn`t lead to more powder to push the bullet.
The bullets are not equal though, the 7mm 140gr has the same SD as a 150gr 30 cal or a 125gr 6.5mm. You can`t push a heavier bullet or one with a higher SD as fast, or faster, then one lighter or with a small SD with the same powder charge. What you want to do is the same as trying to drive a 200 gr 30 cal as fast as you`re running your 140 gr 7mm. It ain`t going happen with safe pressures

I understand the FPS issue, I know the 7mm will beat it in speed. My question is on the throat & case capacity. The mag box is 3.600 & a 140gr Accubond would seat all the way flush into the neck at a COL of 3.600. A 130gr Accubond is 60 thousandths shorter than the 140gr. I was thinking if I had the barrel throated so a 140gr would have a COL of 3.540, I'd have the option of using either a 140 or 130gr Accubond. Also feeding should be fine. I built this as a hunting rifle & don't have plans to use the HPBT's in it.

My last 264 WM had a COL of 3.505 with a 140gr Amax.

Anyone try N170 in the 264?

I found a pound of H870 where should I start with 140gr accubonds?

H870 is getting almost impossible to find anymore(why I bought 22lbs of it) and the H869 does not do as well in my rifles that I use H870 in. If you find any buy it!!

Go to "Steve's reloading pages" on the net or get Stonecreek's advice on charge weight.

If you only have one pound, don't bother. By the time you get an accurate load you'll be out and would have fallen in love with the powder........only to never be able to find anymore, ever.

If you just want to shoot it up, I bet you can go to 78 grains.........

Seriously, try the US-869. Then buy about 16 to 24 #'s of the same lot

I was able to get a pound of H870 for testing. Things are looking up.
Had to go to the gunsmith to have a trigger issue resolved which turned out to be a weak return spring. I also had him put a recessed crown on it & throat it 45 thousandths longer. Now the bullet seats much nicer. I am at a COL of 3.495 with a 140gr Accubond.

I loaded new Win brass with 215F primers. I started at 73gr H870 & went up to 75gr H870 with the 140gr Accubonds.

I only loaded the 130gr Accubonds at 75gr H870

I also tried some 130gr Accubonds with 62gr IMR7828. Speed was OK, groups sucked & signs of pressure were showing.

The 140gr @ 73gr were kind of all over the page.

The 140gr @ 74gr did the vertical string thing This made no sense what soever. The one is a definite pull, but the other 4 got higher every shot? Weird? Speed averaged 3179 FPS. This was also shot before the other groups. Any ideas on that group?

The 130gr @ 75gr grouped very well. There is 3 shots in that cluster at the top This group got me excited. Average speed was 3254. High 3265 Low 3248.

The last group was the 140gr @ 75gr. The one is a definite pull. the average speed was 3206. High 3216 Low 3197.

Looking like 75gr is the magic #. I'll play with the seating depth a bit. I am 12 thousandths off the lands currently.

Being H870 is discontinued I am hoping I can duplicate these groups with US869 when I get some this weekend.

The frustration is now starting to lift. I am now seeing the FPS & grouping I was looking for. A 264 with the right combo can shine.

You'll have to use a heavier charge of US-869 to get the velocity; it's slower burning. You may have to tap the sides of the case to get it to settle so you can get it all in. I went to 80 grains and saw no pressure IN MY GUN.

Let us know how it goes!

Can you even get 80gr in a case?

I sure wish I had a couple 8lb caddy's in my powder locker now

Wookie-

Congrats on finding some Hodgdon 870; that was a real find. Good shooting, as well.

I am using mil-surp WC-872. I am shooting virgin brass and luckily, my load of 79.5 grains max's my cases out. I am shooting Nosler 140 gr. partitions. I am hopeful, that I can get 80 grains of powder in neck-sized cases. I am also going to try a drop tube to try and pack more powder in the case. In my load development, my rifle didn't start to group until I got to 79 grains of powder.

I am looking forward to trying the Nosler Accu-Bonds.

Good luck and good shooting.

Yeah & it looks like I may have found 4 more pounds of H870 too! Quite excited. Now if I can get good results with US869 too I'll be set

Well I got back from the Gun Show with a fresh pound of US869 to try in the 264. First off, I have no photos to post as it didn't really knock my socks off & there is nothing new to see

Loaded 140gr Accubonds starting at 75gr up to 78gr & 5 rounds of 130gr Accubonds at 77gr.

Bottom line is speed was slow & accuracy was average. FPS spreads were decent though. Here is how it broke down

140gr Accubonds:
75gr only shot 1 @ 2984 FPS
76gr FPS averaged 3047 FPS Low 3040 High 3053. 3 shots with 2 touching (almost on top each other) grouped 3/4" & 2 other shots were touching, but about 2" from the group? Not sure if it was me or not?
77gr only got 2 shots to read. 1 @ 3099 & the other @ 3081. Shot a nice little 3/4" triangle, but had one shot about 1" higher & one about 2" to the right? Again not sure if it was me, it was windy today & busy at the range.
78gr is TOO much in my rifle. First one was a tight extraction & read 3140 FPS & the second was a VERY tight extraction & did not register on the Chrony. I brought the rest home to be pulled.

130gr Accubonds
FPS averaged 3106 FPS. Low 3072 High 3124 FPS. No accuracy at all. 5 shots in a 2" group.

I have read a few posts claiming US869 to be TOO slow for the 264. I will add my name to that list. If 3050 FPS was my goal, I can reach that with a lot less RL22 & the same accuracy.

I had high hopes for US869, but it just didn't make the mark. Oh Why Oh Why did they discontinue H870

It is looking like once my H870 is gone (which won't be long) I'll have to tweak my RL25 load as it is doing quite nice in that 3100 FPS range.

Just thought I'd post this info for those 264 shooters since there isn't much data with new powders & the 264