How does the O.A.L. gauge work and are they worth it?

Chuck

This is the link to the site

http://www.stoneypoint.com/oal_index.html

In order to get the most from the OAL gauge and seat bullets according to where the ogive is rather than the tip, you will need one of these also

http://www.stoneypoint.com/comparator_index.html

This may answer your questions, but if not get back to us

Woods is right. Without the Comparator, the only way to transfer the length measurement you gained from the OAL Gauge is to measure cartridge Overall Length, and that isn't particularly repeatable (deformed lead tips, etc.)

As for its value, I like it less than the RCBS Precision Mic, but the OAL Gauge is a little easier to use with Push Feed rifles, such as Remingtons, in which there's no standing ejector to hang up on the gauge itself. The Precision Mic works better with Controlled Round Feed rifles where there's no spring-loaded ejector to make holding the cartridge in place difficult.

Jaywalker

buy the sinclair tool, it doesn't use a fake case or require more $ to get one modified. The sinclair uses a fired case from YOUR chamber along with a bullet dropped into the rifling to make it's measurements. I can get back to the .001" with it and all for ~$30.

The comparator is a must either way you go.

quote:

Originally posted by JustC:
buy the sinclair tool, it doesn't use a fake case or require more $ to get one modified. The sinclair uses a fired case from YOUR chamber along with a bullet dropped into the rifling to make it's measurements. I can get back to the .001" with it and all for ~$30.

The comparator is a must either way you go.

Hey JC

I bought the Sinclair and it is accurate but to me it was much more a PITA to use. It wouldn't fit in one of my rifles because the nylon rod guide was too large and wouldn't seat against the back of the bolt shroud, or was it that the rod on the nylon rod guide wouldn't bear on the bolt handle groove cause it was slanted - don't recall now. Also, the knurled knobs on the metal stops are so small you can't get your fingers around them to tighten them down good. Tried to make a groove in them so I could tighten them with a screwdriver but the nylon knurl knob fell apart. Hard to get the bullet in the chamber and against the lands without taking your gun and turning it upside down.

Just had bad luck or bad application, I guess.

Now I use the Reeves tool in combination with the Stoney Point.

Will sell you a slightly used Sinclair cheap!

Just remember that when using the stoney point special made cases is that they are small sized cases to fit in any chamber and that your reading will probably be a little short of what your actual measurement to the lands is in your chamber. better to use cases fired in your own chamber, drill out the primer pockets and tap them to fit the tool. cheaper too.

quote:

Originally posted by ChuckF:
How does the O.A.L. gauge work and are they worth it?

Hey Chuck, Looks like you are getting plenty of positive responses, so here is the other side of that coin.

Any of these Case Length Measuring Devices really are not needed to load very accurate ammo. If you enjoy gadgets, then they serve a purpose.

They also have a learning curve which means you can get completely different readings from the same Bullet-to-Lands distance using the exact same bullet.

A buddy of mine had one and gave it to me because he thought he was using it incorectly. I messed with it a couple of weeks and gave it back to him. And I believe it now resides in a Pine Swamp.

Anything you "think" needs measuring with one of them can be done with a Cleaning Rod and a Set-Up Bullet to determine the OCL. Then once you Seat that bullet, you convert the OCL to Overall Die Length(ODL) and you are good to go for that box of bullets.

As far as "needing" to measure the Casehead to Datum Point on the shoulder, it is completely un-necessary. If you are using a Bolt Action in Dangerous Game country, a Pump or a Self-feeder, you simply Full Length Resize. If not in Dangerous Game country and you are using a Bolt Action, you simply custom fit the cases to your specific rifle by Partial-Full Length Resizing.
---

Two "benefits" of all these Devices are:
1. Buying one helps keep some Company alive selling them(the economy stimulated).
2. They help make the day go a lot faster by keeping you guessing about the dimensions(wasting time).

Best of luck to all you folks.

Here's how I use the Stoney Point

The results are close enough for me and it's very easy to use. But always take 3 or 4 measurements.

Hot Core:

quote:

They also have a learning curve which means you can get completely different readings from the same Bullet-to-Lands distance using the exact same bullet.

This is also true. There's more to it than learning curve, though, as I discovered early on.

I was getting wildly varying readings from the Stoney Point OAL Gauge, despite being extremely careful of the pressure I was using, and juggling back and forth with the gauge and with a dowel down the barrel. I noticed most of the variation came later in a session and was associated with a faint "click" as the gauge pushed the bullet towards the lands. I think the "click" was a previously-tested bullet settling into a position it had resided in previously, with the softer jacket scored by the harder barrel and lands. It was moving much farther up the barrel than an untested bullet would have.

I got better results by testing a single bullet no more than once, though shooting it was fine. Hmm. I guess that was a kind of "learning curve," though, too.

I agree that the doo-dads aren't really necessary for hunting ammunition - just set the dies and load to recommended OAL for that bullet.

But if you want to know you're 0.018" off the lands, then you do have to find the lands first. I've used soot and magic marker, and prefer the doo-dads, though it does take me a couple of hours of fiddling before I'm satisfied that I've actually found them, and haven't just measured my imagination. I keep spending money trying to find a quicker and easier way.

Jaywalker

Jay, I havn't found any trouble thus far in the Rem, wins, rugers, brownings with the nylon guide not fitting, but that is all I have used it in.

as for the knobs, I just tightened them LIGHTLY with pliers to get the grip. Once they wear out, I am sure sinclair will make good on it, and maybe it costs me a few bucks,..but I liked the way this tool uses your fired case and a bullet dropped into the lands in your chamber. I just point the muzzle at the ground, and let the bullet slide on in until it contacts the lands. Then, a very slight tap with a cleaning rod and it falls out the back. This is just my opinion, but the theory behind the sinclair using a fired case from your chamber and a bullet touching your lands was what made me go with it. I beleive it is one of the best things I have ever purchased for my bench, but that doesn't mean there aren't other great tools too

as for the wandering ogive,..I have not had that problem either. The sinclair tool is used to find the OAL at the lands (THE bullet used is then stored in the die box). Now, once your die is set to seat it to that EXACT oal, you can measure from casehead to ogive with the comparator. Now, any new bullet can be used by simply making it the same length when seated, from casehead to ogive of the new bullet. This will ensure (disregarding erision) that each pill, is seated the same distance from the lands. Even when retesting the same bullet, I end up with the same measurement and have very rarely seen even a .002-.003" variance. That's close enough as you really need to either be a little off or a little into the lands to make up for variations in the bearing surface lengths of mass produced bullets. At the lands makes for vertical dispersion where one bearing surface is longer or shorter than the last. Seating them off or into the lands makes for less of that dispersion (IMHO).

as for hunting rifles, pick a length, say .020" off the lands, set the die, load em and shoot em.

With the Stoney Point using cases fired in your chamber you get the same results as the Sinclair if you use it much the same way as described for the Sinclair, with a consistent drop or pressure of the bullet at the lands.

In addition to the accuracy for measurement, you have the advantage with the Stoney Point comparator of checking each and every round you load. It can be done quickly and accurately, and if you are so inclined you can adjust the seating for the variances of the bullets.

I use the Stoney Point OAL guage with the comparitors. I find it easy and the modifide cases are not a problem. I met someone who taps the threads for me. This is better because I am using a fire formed case for that paticular rifle.

In the past I used the cleaning rod methode. It was far more reliable than doing the ol' chamber a bullet with the dented mouth on the case, measure. I found even the cleaning rod methode gave me inconsistancy with certain rifles and bullet styles/makes. Everthing seems to be consistant now with the SP OAL.

One of my rifle barrels is extremely sensitive to seating depth variations, it requires the .284 140 gr. Nos BT to be seated exactly -0.007" off the lands to produce its best accuracy. I agree that the Stoney Point OAL Gauge requires a little technique to master and achieve repeatable results, but it's the one I use most often.

JustC,

Are you talking about the Stoney Point OAL Gauge, or something else? If the SP, I'm a bit surprised you haven't had any trouble getting the OAL Gauge guide rod back out past the standing ejector of the Winchester. It always took me a bit of wiggling, but I did get it out. For the Kimber, I found it flat impossible to get out, since the diameter of the receiver is smaller than that of the Winchester and Ruger.

Jaywalker

jaywalker,..I am using the sinclair tool. It fits the bolt raceway of every rifle I have tried it in. Not to say that the AP doesn't. My SINCLAIR tool makes for ogive to land measurement within .001-.002" every time. When you drop a bullet into the lands (the same bullet you use to set the seating die) and drop a fired case into your chamber (headpsacing on the shoulder) you get a perfect measurement every time. You have exacted every dimension on your chamber that way. I tap the rod on the casehead to similate the bolt close pressure when the ejector is compressed with the bolt inserted. But I get consistent measurements with even different bullets using the sinclair OAL tool and the sinclair comparator. I can run the measurements many times,..but the original ogive to land measurement always remains the same.

pribably bthe cheapest and most accurate gauge is to use a peice of brass for which ever caliber you using using.
cut 2 or 3 slots depending on caliber size down the neck to the start of the shoulder using a dremmel.
polish off the burrs and then polish inside untill you can move the bullet with a little reistance still there
place the bullet into the case and push it into the chamber as far as it will go with your finger
then close the bolt slowly to make sure its fully home and then extract carefully and measure,you will find if polished correctly there enough tansion to hold the bullet and not push it into the lands,this is the most accurate way I have found ,and costs nothing only a bit of time

Okay, thanks. I'll look at the Sinclair and think about the homemade brass.

Jaywalker

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mc:
Here's how I use the Stoney Point

Bill, I'm using the Stoney Point system and take 10 readings before I get an average. However, I have hit a snag you might be able to give me some advice on.
The calibre is 223Rem. When measuring 80grn Sierra Matchkings the first ten base to ogive readings averaged 1.973". Another day the ten readings averaged 1.863". What may I be doing wrong to get such a disparity. I believe I seat the stem of the gauge with the same pressure each time. By the way, the projectiles measured were from the same batch.

Hope you can help.

Thanks
Bill Dyer (steyrl)

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywalker:
Woods is right. Without the Comparator, the only way to transfer the length measurement you gained from the OAL Gauge is to measure cartridge Overall Length, and that isn't particularly repeatable (deformed lead tips, etc.)
...
Jaywalker

I don't agree. You just have to define a standard bullet length. For a certain bullet with a certain length you will get a max. OAL. If the tip of another bullet of the same sort is distorted you simply have to add/substract the difference in bullet length to/from the OAL length of the cartidge. No comparator needed.

For those who may be interested in making their own modified cases. The tap for the StonyPoint/Hornady tool is 5/16x36.

muck

I use the Stoney point tool without all the fake cases and such.

The Stoney Point tool is invaluable for measuring the head to should datum distance for bottle neck cases.

I find my loaded bullet max length against the lands with a case from my rifle. I use a once fired case with the neck slightly pinched.
After that I know the starting point.

I use some cheap hardwood dowels from the local hardware store. They work like a champ. Slide the proper size dowel in the muzzle to the bolt face on a closed bolt, slide a razor across the muzzle making a mark, Remove the bolt, drop a bullet in, hold in place with a short dowel, slide it back and forth with the two dowels a bit, hold slight pressure against the bullet and make another mark with the razor. It's really simple. I feel this method gives a much better true land measurement with a given lot of bullets than many of the gadgets out there.

Good Luck

Reloader

My Stoney Point hasn't been used in over 4 years maybe more.Just don't find use for it. roger