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Originally posted by Kentucky Nimrod:
Had a problem with some reloads for my 1886. I reloaded some Hornady 350 grain flat points and seated them up to the crimp groove. The gun won't close on this round. Is this bullet too long for this gun>
Is "the bullet" too long for the gun? Well, I would say no, not if it made the trip from the magazine. If you just can't lock the lever into position, I would submit that perhaps you didn't size the brass enough.
Take the decapping pin out of your sizing die, run the loaded rounds up into the die, and try again. Do this with one round and see how it goes. Remember to lube the case first.
Post how it goes.
Russ |
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| Also... just to humor me... mark up the brass with a felt marker, or something, and check where marks are made. I'm really betting you just don't have the brass sized enough.
Russ
[ 10-29-2002, 02:45: Message edited by: Russell E. Taylor ] |
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| Thats pretty funny Russell. Where do you suppose the brass/bullet material is going to go when the cases neck gets to that point in the size die. Thats about where your majic marker will show contact. Seat your bullet as deep as you can and still crimp in the cannelure. If it still won't close look for rifling marks on the bullet. If that don't show you anything then dissasemble your ammo and start over. This time work with your size die until you get it right. |
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| Its new Starline 45-70 brass. I didn't full length resize it just trued up the necks. But you may be right. I'll try chambering some empty brass just for grins. I loaned out my dial caliber over the weekend and am running blind right now. |
| | | Posts: 457 | Location: Kentucky | Registered: 25 February 2002 | 
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Originally posted by rickt300:
Where do you suppose the brass/bullet material is going to go when the cases neck gets to that point in the size die.
"Go?" It's going to "go"... "inward"... just like when you size empty cases.
And by the way, by the time the "case's neck gets to that point in the die"... the rest of the case will be a LOT more sized than it is now, and it'll work.
Haven't worked up a whole Hell of a lot of BPCR loads, have you?
There's no need to disassemble the ammo. We're not talking about anything dangerous. We're talking, at best, very VERY small fractions of an inch that need to be sized so he can chamber the rounds.
[ 10-29-2002, 05:14: Message edited by: Russell E. Taylor ] |
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Originally posted by Kentucky Nimrod:
Its new Starline 45-70 brass. I didn't full length resize it just trued up the necks.
You ALWAYS full-length size new brass!!!
Do pushups. Then report back after what I told you to do works.
Russ |
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| If resizing doesn't help you might want to check the throat(or lack of). I own both the 1886 ex. lt. and theMarlin 1895 CB, The 1886 will not chamber the 400 gr. Speer but the Marlin will. The new 1886's literally don't have a throat they go straight from chamber to rifling while the Marlins do have a short throat. I'm not sure about the hornady but if it mikes .458 just ahead of the canalure you've got the same problem. |
| | | Posts: 1018 | Location: Lafourche Parish, La. | Registered: 24 October 2002 |
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| Good thought, Rooster. It would be nice if he'd get back to us, I'm sure one of us is right.
Russ |
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| Thanks for the thoughts guys. I'm on the road until Friday but will check it out when I get back and get my dial caliper back...hmmmm I've been lusting after a Mitutoyo dial for a while. Maybe its time to spring for an upgrade?
[ 10-30-2002, 05:49: Message edited by: Kentucky Nimrod ] |
| | | Posts: 457 | Location: Kentucky | Registered: 25 February 2002 |
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| FRIDAY????????????? God, I hate suspense. Plus, then "I" will be gone from Friday night to Sunday night. If you're engraving the bullet, that's the problem. Otherwise, you didn't size enough. Friday. Good grief. Not that I'm impatient or anything. ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif) Russ |
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| So Russel you are saying that the size die will reduce the case and the bullet at the same time? Any particular lubricant you got in mind? Seems to me the case neck is the first thing that gets "sized". Whatever lets see the saga run itself out. |
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| The size thing is easy to sort out. I'll simply take some new but as yet unloaded cases and try and chamber them. When I was having the problem I checked the bullet very carefully for rifling marks and could not discern any. |
| | | Posts: 457 | Location: Kentucky | Registered: 25 February 2002 |
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| Collected some additional data today regarding this saga. Called Hornady and talked to a tech. He said the 350 grain bullet was designed for the .450 Marlin. According to the tech its just a tad too long for a 45-70 if your brass is longer than the min Trim length. He said to trim the brass and it usually will chamber fine in an 1886. Was wondering if either of you have any experience with the Cast Performance 405 grain WFNGC in a 45-70/1886? Guess I'll be pulling some bullets on Saturday...good thing I only loaded 10!
[ 10-31-2002, 02:19: Message edited by: Kentucky Nimrod ] |
| | | Posts: 457 | Location: Kentucky | Registered: 25 February 2002 |
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| quote:
Originally posted by Kentucky Nimrod:
Collected some additional data today regarding this saga. Called Hornady and talked to a tech. He said the 350 grain bullet was designed for the .450 Marlin. According to the tech its just a tad too long for a 45-70 if your brass is longer than the min Trim length. He said to trim the brass and it usually will chamber fine in an 1886. Was wondering if either of you have any experience with the Cast Performance 405 grain WFNGC in a 45-70/1886? Guess I'll be pulling some bullets on Saturday...good thing I only loaded 10!
It would seem to me Hornady now has two distinct 350 grainers, a RN, and a FN.
In the new Hornady load book, the RN is loaded in the 45-70. I didn't see any 450 Marlin info. I'm led to believe the FN would work best in the 450 chamber, whereas, the RN is for the 45-70. Perhaps you have the wrong bullet... ~~~Suluuq |
| | | Posts: 854 | Location: Kotzebue, Ak. | Registered: 25 December 2001 |
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Originally posted by rickt300:
So Russel you are saying that the size die will reduce the case and the bullet at the same time? Any particular lubricant you got in mind? Seems to me the case neck is the first thing that gets "sized". Whatever lets see the saga run
itself out.
You're using medications in a manner not allowed by law. You clearly don't understand the problem nor the resolution. I do. Like I said before, you don't have much BPCR experience. You've worn out my patience and I won't respond to your ignorance anymore. Have a nice day. |
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Originally posted by Kentucky Nimrod:
The size thing is easy to sort out. I'll simply take some new but as yet unloaded cases and try and chamber them. When I was having the problem I checked the bullet very carefully for rifling marks and could not discern any.
Well? Did you do this? You said there was no engraving on the bullets you tried to chamber, so did you do what I said? |
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| Take a pill Russ...it aint Friday yet ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif) I'll let you know when I get home... after I kiss the sweet thang, pet the dog, chase the cows outta the yard, fix any leaky plumbing, smoke a cee-gar, drink an adult beverage, polish my riding boots for the Saturday Afternoon fox hunt....THEN I'll check my 1886. I ain't in much of a hurry ya see as I've already collected antlers for the season last Sunday during KY's early blackpowder weekend. 9 point, 165 lbs. That was lucky too as my first attempt with my flintlock resulted in a big click, followed by a woosh, followed by a dumb deer standing there looking stupid while I reprimed...did a little quick and strategic jiggling of the gun to make sure some 4F trickled in the flash hole. The 2d attempt produced the desired results. Made a nice .50 cal hole in the chest through a shoulder and through the heart but the round ball stayed in the chest cavity. After a big kick in the air he limped 40 yards and fell over...kicked for another 15-20 seconds, bellowed and was done. Ain't the suspense killin' ya? ![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif) |
| | | Posts: 457 | Location: Kentucky | Registered: 25 February 2002 |
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Originally posted by Kentucky Nimrod:
Ain't the suspense killin' ya?
Not since you called Hornady, no.
I'm done.
Russ |
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| Russ, The verdict is in...the bullet profile is the culprit. The new brass drops into the chamber both before neck sizing and after. Tried trimming the brass back to minimum and seated a bullet and wallah. In your defense, not that you can't defend yourself mind you , I have re-resized loaded ammo before and it can work. Especially in a long taper case like the 45-70. But that wasn't the problem here. |
| | | Posts: 457 | Location: Kentucky | Registered: 25 February 2002 |
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| Gee Russ, I could see how you might get away with sizing a loaded round with a soft lead bullet in it but not a jacketed bullet like the 350 grain Hornady. The smart thing to do when working with a bullet you never used before is to make up a dummy round and work with that till you get it right. Speaking of medications what ARE you taking as there are some adjustments there that could be made. |
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| Rooster is right. There is no throat in those new 86's either Browning or the new Winchester.
I rethroated about 1/8" so those 350gr bullets would work. The other thing you can do is recannuler them. |
| | | Posts: 711 | Location: Michigan , USA | Registered: 03 June 2000 |
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| There is another answer and that is to trim the cases to whatever length is correct to make a working overall loaded cartridge length for the rifle in question. I am working on this for the Speer 350 grain bullet to work in my marlin. |
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