I have a 2" smith that will take +P loads, I am planning on loading a hard 148 gr full wadcutter and maybe 4.5 gr bullseye. does anyone have any experience with this?

You're better off with 158 gr. Lead HPs in the snub. Bullseye .....or some other fairly fast burning powder would still be a good choice.

A box of any +P rated Hollow Point. Speer loads a 135 grain hollow point that is specifically designed fo short barreled revolvers. I load practice ammo but buy my carry ammo.

Some years back I tested the Federal Hydra Shocks in .38. Penetration and expansion was impressive! I think you would be hard pressed to find a better round for defense in that particular caliber.

That's a nice combo but I think around 3.5 grains o Bullseye is closer to max at about 900 + FPS.

quote:

Originally posted by vinnyg:
That's a nice combo but I think around 3.5 grains o Bullseye is closer to max at about 900 + FPS.

Not from a snub, nope. You will have to psh BE a lot harder than 3.5gr to get 900fps in a 2". I like the 158grLSWCHP+P loads in 38sp or 357mag snubs. The Rem. or Win load load will make 830fps+ in most 2" snubs, expand well & penetrate deep. To handload an equiv load, I like Unique or WSF.

The new H.P. factory ammo is hard to beat, but if you want to try something interesting that I used to use before they made such good ammo. Then try the 148 gr. hollow base wad-cutter loaded backwards. Very cool!

Stay out of court; use factory ammo.

I carry 158 XTP'S in my 642 smith, for practice I load 158 SWC over 4.0 W231. works well with nearly same point of impact as the carry load.

Why would you end up in court using your own loaded ammo?

There are a lot of people who think that prosecuters and trial lawyers will go after a hand loader for making "extra deadly" rounds.

I'm not getting involved in that arguement.

My recommendation was based on the fact that the ammo was tailored to a short barrel; manufacturers have access to more specialized powder than handloaders; and I wouldn't use anything other than a Hydra-Shock or a Gold Dot for defense if I have a choice.

I see I guess I understand now with the litigation happy crowd and all, but I think the same could be said for buying "extra deadly" bullets at the store............

How does the 231 work with the 2" barrel, it is quicker then bullseye

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
I see I guess I understand now with the litigation happy crowd and all, but I think the same could be said for buying "extra deadly" bullets at the store............

An interesting angle (if anyone is concerned about handloading self defense ammo) is to check out what ammo is used by local LEO agencies and use the same bullet.
IMHO a lot can be said for inspecting every component and charge that you assemble in each cartridge to be carried for self defense.

While I too would recommend you use factory loads for defense, to answer your original question from the Speer No 8 Manual. listed under Defense loads in 2" revolvers, they show for a 158gr Lead SWC:
8gr of SR 4756 for 1023fps.

5.5gr of Unique for 858fps

3.5gr of Bullseye for 719fps.

These loads are safe for small framed S&W's but not recommended for steady, ie a "bunch of shooting.

The "THING" you must be aware of when using 148gr Wadcutters is that if they are seated flush with the case mouth they are seated much deeper than a 158gr SWC, and pressures will be MUCH, MUCH higher.

The same Speer Manual shows, with a 148gr full Wadcutter 3.5gr of Bullseye as max at 871fps.

I would consider 4.5 gr of Bullseye as TOO HOT.

There has never been a prosecution for using
handloads in self defense never. This was started 30 years ago by a "Gunwriter" Dean
Grinnel. having said that; how many rounds of
self defense ammo do you need?. Go commercial.
Good luck!

158gr jhp zero bullet and 158gr speer jhp

231 (+P) 4.4 gr. 725
540 (+P) 6.6 gr. 800
2400 (+P) 7.8 gr. 910
2400 (+P) 8.2 gr. 954
Unique(+P) 4.4 gr. 882
these were developed in a Smith model 642
they are max loads
start low and work up.
like the others I do not see any issues with reloads for self defense in a wheel gun.
these are good loads, my thought is you would not suffer any by stander damage.

For a good evaluation of the effectiveness of ANY load in a 2" 38 Special, effectiveness on REAL HUMANS that is, please see the definitive work Handgun Stopping Power and its sequel.

Didn't take me long to settle on the Winchester 158-gr SWCHP +P factory load. Please read the book, it'll put some new colors in your paintbox!

I also have plenty of Federal +P+ 'FBI ONLY' factory loads but I don't fire these in any alloy frames 'cause of the Fearsome Flinch Factor.

If you feel safe using specially-tailored reloads for self-defense, why then I think you should go for it! After all, they say that 'bought' experience is the most effective kind, and I KNOW that plenty of attorneys can explain the concept of 'bought' quite clearly if you should ever happen to shoot anyone with them....why take the chance?
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by gi:
How does the 231 work with the 2" barrel, it is quicker then bullseye

IT runs fine in a 2" but check a burn rate chart, W231 is much slower than BE, much.

get a real wad cutter and drive it as fast as you can. i have yet to see a 38 special snub-nose reliably expand hollow point bullets. slugs out of snub nose guns are traveling at air rifle velocities.

I like your wad cutter load. As to going to jail for using handloads ive yet to see it in print where it actually happened and if it was brought up in your case you could say your using wadcutter target ammo.

Many years ago, Jeff Cooper said he loaded 5 gr bullseye behind hollow base wadcutter with bullet reversed, he had a giant hollow point.

I am going to try 3.7 gr and may go up to 4. Next bow season after I take a doe with bow, I will shoot it with wadcutter broadside and see what it does.

My Bride still prefers a 38Sp S&W Bodyguard, but I long ago changed over to the 22LR.

Take a look at the Handgun Stopping Power book and you'll see why! Stopping power on HUMANS is about equal, while the 22LR provides LOTS more practice for the same money. I figure that a couple of 22s in the head is better than a couple of 38s in the body, and I can practice about 4 times as much with the 22.

I've never had to shoot a person up-close-&-personal with a 22 but have killed several deer with 22 handguns, it's fairly easy if the shooter keeps his head. AAMOF I've killed more small game with my S&W 63 than all others combined, simply because I had it available in my pocket.
Regards, Joe

i load ammo for my spousal unit's .38 det spl with 150 gr homecast swcs pushed by 3-3.2 grs of bullseye..... that is all i care to use for the old small frame colt........

My 2" J frame Smiths are sighted in for 125 grain bullets. Older ones, which were not +P rated, were sighted in for 158's.



Now this is just my opinion, but with the wonderful factory Hydra Shocks, and other excellent, ballistic gell tested factory ammo on the market, I feel safer behind their stuff than some old LWC.

tasco 74 do you have any idea what velocity you are getting with the 3.2 gr bullseye?

I really like the idea of the wad cutter

Federal has their 125gr Nyclad back on the market. It is an excellent non +P load especially for the older smith snubbies. Recoil is negligible even in the airweight models.