Hey DD, Have you taken anything with the 300gr paper Patched load before? What is the Nose Shape? What type of shot placement are you going for with them?

Best of luck to you on the hunt.

Went to the range finally to check zero on the 77/44 SS and Contender Carbine. Top photo: small holes courtesy of some other shooter Single @ top right is a fouler. Wad at top of black is 4 shots, 3 above "X" after sight adjustment. 300 Gr. pure lead paper patch, WW brass, CCI mag primer, 17.0 gr. Li'l Gun. Millet SP-1 red dot. BTW, the loads are 2 years old for the 44. Lubed with 50/50 Vaseline/Beeswax, wrapped in two turns of 9# onion skin.



Bottom is two shots with Contender Carbine, Rem. 150 gr. CL, 22" bbl, Weaver K2.5, good enough is good enough. Range was 100 meters, temp. in mid 80's and wind calm.



I assume this will all suffice for still hunting inside of 30 yards. Will test the theory next week.

The nose profile is similar to an old Speer RN lead design with a .25" meplat added. It mimics a BC of about .240 as best I can determine, dies built per my spec. by Corbin, swaged by Montana Precision Swaging and available with cupped base or flat, HP or not. My rifle likes the FBFN. Available 240-350 gr. Sorry for the fuzzy image, will do it better when there is some sunlight avalaible.





Hunted with this thing for two years but the TC Carbine wound up in my mitts when deer showed up. It will be all I carry this year until Bambo shows up. Made a mess out of a 'coon one day though, front to rear, and a small hog(60#). Really big holes. I don't expect to recover any bullets from this thing as penetration runs about 28" in damp loam, double caliber expansion. Usually retains around 97-99% weight, even at point blank range. Trouble is trying to find them afterwards.

Hey DD, Nice looking load. Don't worry about changing the flick, it shows the profile just fine. I do like that Flat Tip.

I see you are using it in a 77/44 which is a nice set-up. I had a 44Mag Contender Carbine and killed "maybe" 24 with the 240gr XTPs. All dropped in their tracks, or fell over due to the bullets pushing the skin out on the far side. But, I never could get one to Exit due to the excellent absolutely perfect mushrooms.

I really like Exits, so even though the XTP performance was great, I decided to see if I could load something to provide the Exits. Bought a bunch of Keith style 240gr Hard Cast Lead Gas-Checked bullets and worked up a Load for them. But I ended up selling the Contender Carbine before I got to blast a Bambi with them.

Do have a 444Mar right now and when I can get to the Range, I'm working up Loads for it with them. So far they are doing OK, but not as well as I want them.

When I was real young there seemed to be a bit more interest in Paper Patched Loads. It always impressed me just how "clean" a barrel could be kept when using them. A bit of Powder residue and that was it. One of the Elders was very patient and explained how the Paper continued to "polish" the barrel with each shot.

Last time I saw a guy using Paper Patched bullets was in a long barreled Browning single shot 45-70. He was shooting clover-leafs at 100yds with it, which got my attention when I was down checking my targets. And he was telling me he was getting velocities way above what he had thought he would get with no Pressure Indicators. Obviously due to the low drag of the Paper Patched bullets.

Best of luck with the Loads. I'd also expect excellent on-game performance with them.

Thanks for that. When The die design was being formulated I suggested to Russ at MPS that he go for a weight range suitable for the .444 but to date I have no idea if he's sold any of them. I like the 300's as a minimum in that caliber if for no other reason than improved BC/SD. Velocities run around 1500 fps for the working load but I have shot them as high as 1650, and note this in in the proximity of the older 305 gr. Remmy factory loads for the .45-70. Accuracy got a bit iffy around 1600, perhaps due to stripping the rifling. I had good luck at low velocities with the cupped base but suspect skirt upset occurred as the velocity passed the 1200 fps range.

A friend is doing the same thing with a Marlin Cowboy gun in .45-70 and routinely shoots 510 gr cupped base RN MOA at 1600 fps, and I'm guessing he has an advantage due to slower twist rate. Bullets also from MPS. Recoil is not going to encourage a lot of shooting off the bags, but it isn't abusive, certainly not offhand. IIRC he has inched into the 1700 + fps range, still under max load with RX7. I do believe that the pressures achieved with PP are lower than any other type of bullet, the bullets definately obturate, and that probably leads to the achieved accuracy. The bullets he has recovered look a bit like a shot glass.

As to polishing the bore, methinks it's a yes and no thing. Shooting unlubed patched bullets will polish out a grey bore after about a half dozen shots with moderate loads, a trick I applied to a Belgian Cape Gun I own that is chambered in 12/.405 Win. On the other hand, I do not think it occurs much with lubed patches, if at all. Very small bits of the patches retrieved after shooting will show powder residue but no evidence of the 'dark-grey' you get with swipe of JB. Just my unscientific observation. They do cause people to ask odd questions at the range, after they see the confetti wafting thru the air.

All in all, it's a lot easier than most people realize, and certainly effective. I'm sure the buffalo would agree. Takes about 5 minutes with a paper cutter to make a few hundred patches, another 30 min to wrap a hundred bullets and maybe 20 min. to lube them after they dry. I do use a taper crimp and will say that roll crimps are a no-no across the board. Also, one little tidbit I left out is that I make and use a single card wad made out of notepad backing. It was the item that eliminated the odd flyer and greatly improved accuracy. My buddy does not, go figure.

In my sampling of one, they work well in a Ruger SRH too but don't know what the velocity range is.

That is all.

Hey DD, I've no idea if the Elders or the guy I met at the Range "Lubed" their Paper Patched Bullets or not.

I do have "The Paper Jacket" book around here somewhere from when my interest in them was going up, but I've just not tried them yet. If I had a "Swager" to size down a few bullets, I might just try them. It has been awhile since I read that book, but I do seem to remember having the Bullet diameter the same as the Bore diameter (instead of the Groove diameter) is what Mr. Matthews recommended. Then make enough paper wraps to reach the Groove diameter.

Is that the formula you use? Are your bullets smooth sided?

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Ah yes, the old Cardboard Gas Check. Now I have messed with that a bit when I was shooting revolvers and pistols a good bit. I tried a lot of things from the styrofoam meat trays to thin cardboard and probably had the best luck with the waxed milk/orange juice cartons. They did seem to help eliminate a few fliers. But it was real hard to maintain concentration with the guys I shot with, so maybe that was just luck.

Yes, in essence that is it for SMOKELESS loads. Bore to Bore plus a mil, fill the rest with paper. IIRC Mathews suggests some small dimension less that bore diameter for BP patching. My bullets are smooth sided but virtually any lead bullet will work, with or without grease grooves. The Lee sizer that fits on loading presses works fine if you want to size down cast bullets a few thou. They will make a special diameter for a few extra bucks. I do that on occassion; actually sized down some Speer .430 RB's to .422 and patched them for multi-ball loads. Worked like a champ but patching RB's is a drill and a half! I did not find a lot of happiness with Alox BTW, best clean that off after sizing. It keeps the patches from separating cleanly from the bullet.

One thing I try to avoid is sizing after patching. If the bullet is properly sized to start with and you have the right thickness of paper it is not required.

One point about the card wad. I seat it with the bullet and it's a snug fit. There is no air gap betwixt bullet and card wad. The load I use is also mildly compressed. 300 grs of anything is long for that case. OAL is 1.648" and that is due to magazine length.

If you ever decide t try it out please do not use opaque or colored paper as it most certainly contains kaolin. That is a clay based pigment and it will act as an abrasive. Dress pattern paper, onion skin or most tracing papers are okay in quality, and do not contain this material.