At what point do you consider a caliber ceases to be a wildcat?

03 September 2002, 16:52

Mike375

At what point do you consider a caliber ceases to be a wildcat?

Is it just SAAMI specifications.

With all the custom ammunition makers these days, it seems just about every caliber is loaded for.

Would you consider the Lazzeroni and Dakota calibers as wildcats?

Mike

03 September 2002, 17:10

<BigBob>

MIKE375,
To the best of my knowledge the sole criteria of wildcat is if the cartridge has ever been factory produced, Years ago Browning offered a rifle in .22-250. This was while the cartridge was still a wildcat. The fact that a factory rifle was offered didn't change its wildcat status. Good luck. [Smile]

03 September 2002, 18:14

fredj338

I would think someone has to make a factory rifle & factory ammo. My favorite, the .338-06 for example, is now made by Weatherby in a rifle & they make ammo. So it barely makes factory status. If (2) manuf. make ammo for it, then I think we are really out of the wildcat status.

03 September 2002, 18:43

Mike375

fredj338,

I was thinking if ammo and factory rifles are chambered and also rifles and ammo have official distributorship on a world wide basis.

If that was a reasonable basis, then Wbys would not be wildcats and neither would the 338/06 but Lazzeronis and Dakotas would be wildcats.

Mike

03 September 2002, 19:54

ricciardelli

It is no longer a "wildcat" as soon as a factory releases packaged ammunition for it.

04 September 2002, 00:47

When no factory crackers are available.

What happens if brass for a wildcat can no longer be obtained ??? what does one do with a rifle in this calibre then ??

04 September 2002, 03:20

dan belisle

Make your cases from something else. That's half of wildcatting anyway. - Dan

04 September 2002, 17:55

Paul H

quote:
Originally posted by PC:
When no factory crackers are available.

What happens if brass for a wildcat can no longer be obtained ??? what does one do with a rifle in this calibre then ??

Then you either invest in a lathe to modify brass or turn from bar stock, or you consider a re-chamber or re-barrel.

04 September 2002, 20:11

Jungli Bains

If a cartridge has head stamped brass available I would no longer consider it a wildcat. Therefore I don't consider the Dakota or Lazzeroni cartridges wildcats.

05 September 2002, 05:00

ricciardelli

quote:
Originally posted by PC:
When no factory crackers are available.

What happens if brass for a wildcat can no longer be obtained ??? what does one do with a rifle in this calibre then ??

You do what "wildcatting" is all about...you find a case, improvise, adjust, and innovate!

05 September 2002, 05:05

Mike375

Jungli Bains,

Does it matter who does the head stamping?

Is a 585 Nyati a wildcat?

Mike

05 September 2002, 05:52

<500 AHR>

Point of clarification. Calibers aren't wildcats- cartridges are.

In the USA a cartridge looses it's wildcat status once it has been set up with SAAMI specification and been mass produced by a ammunition manufacturer.

05 September 2002, 05:54

<500 AHR>

[ 09-04-2002, 20:55: Message edited by: Todd E ]

05 September 2002, 07:25

Jungli Bains

Mike,

My definition may be a bit simple as to where a cartridge ceases to be a wildcat. I consider the Dakota and Lazzeroni cartridges as proprietary. If the .585 Nyati is available with headstamped brass and someone chambering rifles for it then I think it could be considered a proprietary round. I not familiar with the .585. I think Ross Seyfried developed it. This subject is full of gray areas. Some wildcatters developed cartridges and were the sole source of ammo, brass and rifles. Their brass was not headstamped with the cartridge's name, just the parent cartridge name. Years ago Roy Gradle developed a line of widcats made from .348 WCF brass. The forming of them was only a little easier than reversing a sex change operation. This made it nearly impossible for anyone to do, so most of his customers bought formed cases from Gradle and loaded the ammo themselves. He also supplied loaded rounds as well. All the brass was neveer the less headstamped .348 WCF. I still consider them to be wildcats. Once a source of headstamped brass becomes available things, to me, are getting out of the wildcat area. Who ever does the headstamping, assuming the brass is made to the designer's specifications, is probably not important.

05 September 2002, 08:15

jeffeosso

it's a wildcat if
1: it's not been factory produced, as BOTH rounds and gun

it's obsolete if
1: it's no longer factory produced, either

IE: 358/378 weatherby is a wildcat, 348/356/358/5mm rem are obsoletes.

jeffe

05 September 2002, 13:19

Wstrnhuntr

As far as Im concerned its no longer a Wildcat when the cost of dies are cut in half. [Wink]

05 September 2002, 13:31

Brad

quote:
Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
As far as Im concerned its no longer a Wildcat when the cost of dies are cut in half.

A darn practical guy... good answer!

06 September 2002, 00:42

Ross Seyfried did develop the .585 Nyati. Rifles are not made by any company as far as I know but an individual contracts a gunsmith to make it.

So is the .585 a wildcat ??. I certainly had never heard of it until I visted the Bertram brass factory. The next time I learned about it was on this forum. I did read about it in a sporting shooter mag. Karl had written to Nick Harvey about his .585. [Wink]