I have been using Barnes XCL in my Merkel double but I'm out now. I tried Hornady but can't get them to shoot.It was regulated for Federal factory with Woodliegh bullets.,I remember seeing a load using Reloader 15 that was supposed to be the same load. I thought it was here but I can't seem to find it. I think it was 85gr with a Federal magnum primer. If anyone knows where I can find this info I would be grateful

My load for my Merkel .470 is 91 gr RL 15, no spacers or what-not. Fed 215 GM primer.

Strangely enough, the Northforks, Woodleighs, and Barnes all clock within 15 FPS of each other and are right at around 2100 FPS for me. They chrono'ed right the same as the factory ammo. This rifle is the least picky rifle I own- shoots everything about the same, decently.

Your results may vary, etc.

i used 87 ge rl15 - no filler - and the barnes solids, the woodleighs and the barnes x all regulated

Spooksar,

When you say that you cannot get it to shoot, what are you observing? Are the shots from the right barrel not grouping together for example or is the spread between right and left the problem?

Eric

RL15 can vary from lot to lot so I would start low and work up. With my current lot of RL15, I am loading 87gr of RL15 with a kynoch wad and 500gr Woodleighs. This load chronographs at 2150-2160. With my first lot of RL15, it took 91gr to get to 2150.

Spook:

The Barnes XLC was discontinued 10 years ago.

Can you quantify what you mean when you say your gun wont shoot ?

What Hornady are you trying ?

I had about 200'XCL's and I finally ran out. I was getting shots form both barrels 1 inch apart and 2 inches low at 50 yards. With Hornady there was a 6 inch differance at 50 yards. The target it came with was Federal factory 2 inches low and centered 2 inches apart from each barrel.

The Hornady ammo is running well below speed according to my chronograph. Need to speed the load up.

Here's some load data.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/470ne.html

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The old XCL Barnes was a solid copper bullet, coated with blue, dry lube Moly. I still have lots of them in my inventory. But I bought modern, banded, copper solids. There are American, French and South African copper solids. I ordered and also have scads in my storage cabinet. Essentially they all look about the same and shoot equally.

The newer Barnes solids now have grooves cut in which the old did not. According to some data the Moly coating added almost 300 feet per second to velocity.

In trying to unravel the disparity between the old Barnes and New Hornady's, *( And olhers ) there seem to be some important differences.

1. Coating.
2. All solids vs lead core copper clad.
3. Grooves vs no grooves.
4. Velocity.
5. Weight.

Further - according to the ballistics software, just changing from one bullet type to another has a very significant effect on both pressure and velocity. Additionally, according to actual results there can be a rather astonishing difference in group sizes from 1 inch to 6 inches.

I have been tinkering, recently, with the Lee lead hardness testing kit, checking all lead vs all copper vs various metallurgies in between and the spread is huge, from 5.5 Brinnel all lead to 35 Brinnell all copper, and in between. That is to say adding other components such as zinc, tin, and more to change hardness.

Some of the internal ballistics software is cautious apparently red lining loads at 40,000 psi for the Merkel double. That 470 Nitro case is HUGE in volume. Plenty of room to add powders. At the same time just changing bullet types shows thousands of psi differences. Too changing powders also shows HUGE differences in psi and to a lesser extent velocity.

The 470 Nitro Merkel double seems to be rather fussy and temperamental about what it is fed. But I do agree with above posters that it is under velocity vis a vis the old Barnes Moly coated vs the new Hornady the Hornady being slower..

The sweet spot will come back by changing bullet types, powder types and grain weights.

I think the above posted link here may short cut time and expenses.

Let us know eventually.

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
The Hornady ammo is running well below speed according to my chronograph. Need to speed the load up.

I was running handloads and the first loads were 8 inches apart. Speeding them up brought it to 6 inches apart

So I loaded 4 rounds with 85gr Re 15 and 5gr of filler, and 4 rounds with 87grs no filler. Went out and shot at 50 yards the 85cr load was 1 1/2 high dead on for windage. One shot from each barrel where 3/4 and 1 inch apart. The 87 grain loads where one shot above the other 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 apart in elevation. I'll be using the 85gr load