I just bought some Redding dies for my 338 win mag. After I left the store I was looking at them out in my truck and noticed the expander ball was way off center. And it never centered even when screwing it up and down in the die. So I went back into the store and the guy told me this is standard with these dies and that the expander "floats". But you could not move it with your fingers so it did not appear to float at all.

I swapped them for some RCBS and they had a centered ball. Did I get a bad set? Seems to me the expander assembly was bent. I looked at another set of Redding and they too were off.

His BS might float but the expander ball doesn't. They shouldn't be off by much, you are buying a supposedly precision tool. With three sets of threads involved however, some misalignment is bound be present. I usually remove the runout myself, shouldn't have to though. Some remove it entirely and use a universal decapper.

You should send Redding an email explaing your experience including the fact you left with RCBS dies. I know if it were my company, I would like to know.

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by PEI ROB:

I usually remove the runout myself, shouldn't have to though. Some remove it entirely and use a universal decapper.

Explain please. Did you mean to say you remove the expander / decapper rod assembly. I use a universal decapper, a Redding body die and a Lee Collet die so I don't have that expander ball / decapping rod problems. Used to put a large rubber washer at the top of the die underneath the lock nut for the decapping rod in order to "free float" the rod and it seemed to help center the rod on full length type dies.

"Explain furthermore please"???

The expander is off center in my Redding die for my 375 RUM, ordered them online, and I did not want to wait for a new one. I have not shot for accuracy yet with my reloads, only velocity and pressure signs. If I could center the expander, some info would be greatly appreciated.

One option if you are set on using a die with an expander (not all calibers have dies available without expanders):
1) use a Universal De-Cap die to remove primer
2) size without the expander assembly
3) install the expander assembly such that it still floats (thread in 1-2 threads) in the die. Push the expander down the sized case neck and pull out again. By allowing the expander to float, the chances of pulling the case crooked are reduced quite a bit.

Some people also try to fix the expander ball in the die when it is in the case neck. This should give you some semblance of a centered expander. IMHO, any expander that is fixed in the die has a good chance of being off-center, though. We are not talking a whole lot here. .003" is not far off center...

- mike

thanks for the input. I too use a decapping die, that way I can clean it in water before resizing and no water gets trapped under the old primer while drying. (don't have a tumbler yet).

So you are saying I could take out the decapping pin, the unscrew the expander way up into the die so that it has some play in it, thus in theory making it float? Sounds like it would work, but Redding should fix this problem.

I like RCBS dies, but thanks to advice I got here, I first throw all the RCBS lock rings in the trash and swap them with Lyman lock rings.

I like collet held rods ,by design they center better.A simple little screw threaded rod on $40 dies is not going tobe that precise.Redding to their credit make their rod wobley,err self-alaigning.

I'm gonna catch hell from all the Redding lovers out there but the one and only set of Redding I bought were for 340 weatherby and they make the worst runnout of any ammo I make with any other dies. I now use RCBS, hornady, forester. My Redding dies were like you explained--decapping rod/expander not centered. Below is a copy of what I usually post on how to tune dies.\\

My $.02 worth---ALL dies with expander balls need tuning. Think about it...a piece of typing paper is .003" thick--what are the odds that the expander is not PERFECTLY centered in a die??? Pretty good I'd say. Pull the expander stem out of the die (and now is a good time to clean the inside of the die). Run about 5 brass into the die and see if they come out concentric. If they do (and usually they will) you now have to try and get that stem centered on re-assembly. A great way that helps is to put a piece of very concentric brass up into the die to hold the stem in place as you tighten it down. Sometimes this takes 2 people unless you have 3 or 4 hands. AFter reassembly try sizing some brass and check runnout. If not good then do very small turns of the expander stem--probably 1/32 of a turn at a time. Resize some brass and repeat the small turns. At some point I can almost guarantee that you will get GREAT RUNNOUT CONSISTANTLY. (Somehow, someway the expander spindle will hit almost perfect centering in the die body) I have many dies that consistantly make less than .002" runnout after sizing with most of the brass at .001" and less. I own, hornady, redding, forester, rcbs, and lee dies. ALL OF THEM HAVE BEEN TUNED and most make fantastic ammo and all make good ammo!! I have never ever got a set of dies from any factory that made as good of ammo as those that I have done this simple work with.

quote:

the guy told me this is standard with these dies and that the expander "floats".

What that guy may have been trying to say is that when the expander starts doing its job of expanding, the neck is the ONLY contact with the die. The slop in the shellholder, both on the case head and in the press, is enough slop to allow self-centering, or float.

Until I went to bushing dies I had problems at one time or another with all manufacturers' dies. The only two that seem to eliminate problems are the Lee collet dies and the Forster's, with the expander up in the neck, where it the expander works on the neck while the neck still has contact with the die.

I bought a new 3 die set of Redding dies for my 300 Win Mag the expander was for a 270 it never touched the inside of the case neck. I sent Redding an email telling them the size the expanderballs were they sent me 2 new expander balls for No Charge. I have had no further problems.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:

quote:

Originally posted by PEI ROB:

I usually remove the runout myself, shouldn't have to though. Some remove it entirely and use a universal decapper.

Explain please. Did you mean to say you remove the expander / decapper rod assembly. I use a universal decapper, a Redding body die and a Lee Collet die so I don't have that expander ball / decapping rod problems. Used to put a large rubber washer at the top of the die underneath the lock nut for the decapping rod in order to "free float" the rod and it seemed to help center the rod on full length type dies.

Well there is more than one way to skin a cat. It all depends on how fussy you want get. If you remove the decapper, you have to use a universal decapper. When you size the brass, the necks are smaller because the expander isn't there. You possibly could ignore this with boattails but its a pain with flat bases. Some neck sizers use bushings to account for different thickness brass and thats a way to adjust your neck diameter. With a regular full length sizer, the neck is sized down alot.
As the brass is pushed up home into the regular full length sizer, the neck is sized. Its when you pull it down the expander does its job. If you leave the expander loose, or floating, it normally keeps the runout less than when the rod is held tight. The rubber under the lock ring on the Redding helps but not if its bent so that its obvious. This can't be done with Hornady or LEE dies BTW, at least mine anways because they are the type that the rod slides instead of breaking.
I measure the expander ball of any new die and chuck it in the drill press and polish it with crocus cloth if I have to. I may take half a thou of it as well. I had a used CH 308 WIN die that the ball was probably meant for a 303, took less than a minute to polish. The rod was made for a win mag though so I cut and rethreaded it and by some miracle it was good enough not to have to straighten. I used it for M14 plinking ammo but the straight brass that goes in comes out at 0.004", good enough for me. After cleaning the threads and tightening the ball, I just find the "high spot" if there is one and bend it until I get around 0.005" runout or better if I'm lucky, my press is only 0.001" out. Measuring the pin doesn't count, the ball is what counts. I can't measure it when in the die so I do the truing hoping for the best. When it goes back in the die it is far better than when I took it out and what I consider acceptable. Most dies I use I didn't bother because of what I use them in and the fact they weren't that bad as is.

Cheers