I have a whole bunch of Winchester nickel cases in 220 swift and 2506 and was wondering if i could use them in standard dies such a rcbs, hornady, an lee collet dies. I was once told that the nickel cases were much harder than brass ones and they would scratch the dies. I only neck size in these calibers if that makes a difference.
I use nickle cases all the time. No problems. I've even used them in Ackely improved chambers & they expanded to the improved chamber fine.
Posts: 8346 | Location: Jennings Louisiana, Arkansas by way of Alabama by way of South Carloina by way of County Antrim Irland by way of Lanarkshire Scotland. | Registered: 02 November 2001
Nickel cases are really only nickel plated. They will not scratch the dies as they aren't harder than brass. AS far as I know they make nickel plated brass cases for better corrosion resistance .They don't turn green as easily in a leather ammo belt. or to differentiate premium ammo.
I find the standard brass case gives me the most consistant service. I don't use those shiny brass cases, why they ever made them has always been puzzeling to me. Maybe they think they are easier to see when on the ground.
this is EXACTLY the same as milsurp brass vs commerical, in respect to pressure.
this aint theory, as I've tested this.. while not an absolute.. take rem 708 brass, and nickel.. max loads will be more than 1 grain less in nickel.. as a matter of fact, the ONLY primer i've had fall out was during this testing.
I have to add my .02$ about pressure and nickel. I was going to work up some max loads for my '06 and I filled both nickel and brass cases with water and they WERE IDENTICAL in case capacity. So, it isn't a "for sure" but being that some have noted problems you should be aware. My recomendation would be to load 5 nickel and 5 brass and chrono the exact same load, bullet combo, and then you'll know!! I usually see more capacity with winchester cases than remington and since remington seems to be a popular supplier of nickel this may be part of the answer too.
I like nickel once I have it trimmed and sized. (and I usually trim an extra .005" to keep from the next trim and chamfer).
Posts: 2002 | Location: central wi | Registered: 13 September 2002
I have had case neck splits sooner with nickel cases in both .243 and .308. I would not choose them over regular brass cases, but would use them if I had them.
Posts: 283 | Location: Florida | Registered: 12 August 2001
Swamp Man: In direct answer to your question, yes, you can load nickel-plated cases just fine with standard dies. As with when loading any case, the die should be kept free of grit or debris which might scratch it -- it is the contaminants, not the nickel case, which can damage the die.
The biggest problem I've run into with nickel cases is with some Remingtons which are very rough on the interior of the neck. They should be polished with steel wool wrapped around some kind of mandrel chucked in a drill before using. If the cases are once-fired factory, you likely won't have this problem.
There is NOTHING inherent to nickel cases which will make pressures higher than with any other brass. But as with any two different sources/manufacturers/lots of brass, there can be a difference, so proceed as you would when changing any component by reducing inital loads until any pressure differences can be determined.
Billions of rounds of handgun ammunition has been fired and reloaded using the (preferred) nickeled brass. Nickeled brass has no different application in rifles.
I have used it in .222, .22-250, .243 (necked from .308 in a single easy pass), .270, 7mm Rem Mag, and .30-06 and have gotten along just fine with it (although the only real advantage I can find is cosmetic). I have some .222 nickel which I load using a Lee Collet neck-sizer that looks as if it will last the lifetimes of several mortals.
Posts: 13239 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001
quote:Originally posted by Stonecreek: There is NOTHING inherent to nickel cases which will make pressures higher than with any other brass.
Billions of rounds of handgun ammunition has been fired and reloaded using the (preferred) nickeled brass. Nickeled brass has no different application in rifles.
Stonecreek I disagree with you, on several counts, including personal experience. I am having a lousey day, so if I sound bombastic, I'll appologize in advance.
1: Nickeled brass is thicker than brass. Period, there is no discussion, on the wall thickness
2: milsurp brass is thicker than just about anything, and one ALWAYS reduces MAX LOADS for milsurp
3: Nickeled brass, while not as thick as milsurp, does increase pressure at MAX LOADS
4: Commerical loadings are not what this discussion is about. You can guarranty that rem nickeled 9mm is at the same PRESSURE as the brass, and be equally as certain it's a different load.
5: nickeled brass is harder, again no discussion.
Please don't tell me you swap brass whillynilly without backing off MAX loads? Further, Please don't tell me that you believe the max load in a remingtion brass is the same as a winchester.
Nickel, lot in and lot out, will be thicker than the same manufactors regular brass.
there are old reloaders and bold reloaders. but there are no old AND bold reloaders.
There is NOTHING inherent to nickel cases which will make pressures higher than with any other brass. But as with any two different sources/manufacturers/lots of brass, there can be a difference, so proceed as you would when changing any component by reducing inital loads until any pressure differences can be determined.
QB]
Thanks for the apology, Jeff; mighty thoughtful of you and I accept without reproach.
I think if you will read the above paragraph from my previous post you will see that I specifically caution AGAINST using a load previously established in one brand/lot/type of brass when switching to another, whether that switch involves nickel or not. This would include military, commercial, or homemade if you wish.
As to whether nickeled brass will always have less capacity (and be harder) than non-nickeled brass, well, again, that can vary by lot and brand and the degree of annealing of the underlying brass, so I think that it is impossible to say for certain without actually measuring the brass capacity and hardness. For example, Kraky found his two lots of nickeled and non-nickel to be identical in capacity. Besides, the actual volume of the thin nickel coating applied is so small as to likely be unmeasurable, even if using the same basic lot of brass.
As to your other comments on commercial loads, et al, I can't find such references in my original post, so I assume your apology is for someone else.
Posts: 13239 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001
Stonecreek, thanks for understanding. I think we would wind up agreeing, one way or the other, if we talked face to face.. basically, you are saying always take precaution when you change brass, and i am saying, more specifically, that nickel from the same manf you are used to working on, REALLY requires the same level of attention.
Georgetown, Huh? Not too dang far.. wanna go when we get around to pig hunting again in the early winter?
While I've never had it happen, I have heard many tales of the nickel peeling, especially from the neck, and scratching dies.
From the RCBS die instructions: "We find that most scratching of the interior of a die is caused by nickel cases or grit on the brass surface. If you are using nickel pistol cases, we recommend that you use a carbide sizer die. This die is hard enough to resist the scratching that nickel caes cause."
They make 'em. They have the experience. I believe 'em.
Posts: 1261 | Location: Placerville, CA, US of A | Registered: 07 January 2001
That is the exact advice that I recieved about using a carbide sizer die for nickel cases. Well, thank you gentlemen for all of you input and advice. Guess I will try them out and if I see any signs of the nickel peeling on the necks I will discard them shells. Georgetown aint too dang far from Bertram, Tx either.
Yes science is a hard sell in this world. I assume that the nickel plating is pure nickel.If so hardened steel dies are much harder than nickel and couldn't be worn or scratched by the nickel. Dies of steel ,carbide or titanium nitride CAN be scratched by things like sand (silicon dioxide) which is very abrasive. My reloading procedure has been to deprime (only) than wash the cases to remove dirt and my dies will last forever.Typical semiauto case especially loaded with lead will have a coating oflube and when they hit the ground will pick up lots of dirt.I have seen scratched carbide dies from dirty cases. It isn't the nickel!!
mete: I too decap the cases and clean then before resizing. I like nickel-plated cases because they don't stain as fast as brass, and I often hunt under the rain.
Even before decapping I brush the inside portion of the cases with a soft nylon brush to remove sand or any hard dirt that may get inside. In my case, I use a nylon bore brush for 25mm pistols, which fits perfectly in the .338WM cases. So far I haven't scratched my dies.
Posts: 2448 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 25 May 2002
I believe Federal used to make some nickle plated 308 Match brass. Or did I dream that? I know I used to have several boxes of it that I loaded for benchrest shooting. And Lord knows I've loaded a zillion rounds of nickle plated pistol brass. The biggest difference I found with it from a loading standpoint was it cleaned up faster and sized easier.
I've had the nickle plating start to peel off of pistol brass but never rifle brass. At any rate, this plating will not harm your dies.
Only gripe is if you load it enough in pistol cases it will start to look like hell. Then I just toss it.
Posts: 19677 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: 23 May 2002
quote:Originally posted by Pecos45: I believe Federal used to make some nickle plated 308 Match brass. Or did I dream that?
I've had the nickle plating start to peel off of pistol brass but never rifle brass....
Hey Pecos, No, you did not dream it. They still do, but Fed is not currently selling cases as components.
If you have a 308Win, I can send you some never-fired, P-FLRed, primer pocket reamed, flash hole deburred, trimed to length, mouth chamfered, mouth deburred, mouth polished and segregated-by-weight cases so you can experience the Neck Peeling first hand. These are NOT Feds.
I'd send you a few fired ones, but the ones from that specific Lot get tossed in the trash after their first shot now.
On the positive side, this group of 308Win cases is the "only" Lot of Nickle Plated Cases I've ever had that exhibit Neck Peeling out of many different calibers and many thousands of cases.
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001
Jeffeosso, Consider that Rem brass is just thicker than WW and one should also cut a grain for Rem brass...
Nickle brass is fine and you can always outside turn the neck just a tad and I mean a tad and that will stop any flaking of nickle..
I like to use Nickle with solids and brass with softs in my 338...Wish I could get some 375 and 416 in nickle for the same reason, makes them easy to ID in a tight spot.
Posts: 41941 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000
Jeff, thanks for the invite. Give me a holler when you start to go. I know exactly where Swamp Man is at Bertram, but am ashamed to say that I'm not familiar with Porter!
Posts: 13239 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001
Hot Core - Thanks for the offer but I gave my .308 to my son. I'm still in morning about it...but I think subconsciously I was looking for an excuse to buy myself another rifle. (I ain't QUITE as dumb as I look.)
Posts: 19677 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: 23 May 2002
If anybody thinks nickel cases won't scratch dies I've got some RCBS pre-carbide .45 ACP dies that should be like new, and shouldn't pinstripe new brass cases.
Bye Jack
Posts: 176 | Location: Saskatchewan | Registered: 14 January 2001
More accurately, the nickel cases wrecked my dies. Eventually I couldn't polish them out, so I trashed the nickel cases and bought brass cases and a set of Hornady TiN dies. At that time the Hornady set wasn't much more than an RCBS sizer itself. I did the same with the .357 shortly after.
Bye Jack
Posts: 176 | Location: Saskatchewan | Registered: 14 January 2001
See My post Hardness Data FYI. I took the hardness of Rem & WW cases and measured the hardness of each including the nickel plate and dies and gun barrel.
Well, here is my view.. Nickel cases are thicker... Let me explain they are coated, we will agree on that. The neck is the part that feels the most difference. So when you size and load your ammo, it in sense is tighter at the neck. More pressure! The interior can be the same dimensions (case capacity) but the neck is where it will show up.
One thing that most folks ignore with nickle cases is they increase bolt thrust. Nickle cases expand slower and they significantly reduce case to chamber grip.
The �only� benefit afforded by nickle is the tarnish issue. Other than this, there are several potential negatives associated with these cases. However, at the end of the day, it is no big deal. So you wear out your dies a little sooner, and you set your bolt back a little quicker, and you blow a little down your bore - after all this is why we have gunsmiths.
If you absolutely must use nickle cases, just inspect them often. Make sure you find no nickle flaking in your dies. It is not something you want in your chamber or bore.
Posts: 10780 | Location: Test Tube | Registered: 27 February 2001
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I'm still in morning about it...but I think subconsciously I was looking for an excuse to buy myself another rifle. 
