WTK: I used LEE ( pistol caliber ) dies a lot. I am quite satisfied with them ( .357, 9 mm, .45 ACP )

I REALLY like their case lenght trim system, their Primer seater and, when necessary, their ( carbide ) factory crimp die.

But for my .30 - 06´s I loaded up to now only with RCBS, also for my .44 Mag.

Now I intend to extend my reloading to more calibers: .222, 7 x 57R, 9.3 x 62, more .30-06, 7 x 57, ...

Please tell me: how good are LEE dies? I know people, who would never consider anything less it´s green or blue coloured, but snobism aside:

how good are they really?

Lets say for a combo gun stricty for hunting, for 2 Mausers for fun shooting and eventually competition?

Thankful for any inputs, Gents.

Hermann

They are more than adequate.

when used right they will make ammo as accurate as you´ll ever be.

Best regards Chris

quote:

how good are they really?

I have maybe 30 sets of dies.....almost all RCBS.

One set from Hornady....a couple from Redding, one from Bonanza, one fron CH4D, one from Lyman....then a local dealer talked me into a set of Lee dies....
I thought....cheap...not a big deal so I bought a set.....from now on....all my dies will be Lee....they are fine dies for a bit less....actually I consider them the best dies I own!

I bet if you are a bench rest shooter, you will see the difference. As we say at the store, a lot less than one in a thousand shooters are champion class. What are your expectations for the product. Do you want to spend the money for a target product if you are looking to go hunting or plinking. Spend you money for features for those features.
I am not a super shot. So like other posters, I don't see any difference in my handloads whether RCBS, Herters, Lee, Redding and all. With most hunting stuff, you get what you pay for. If the best is only for you, you won't be happy with less. But if you are looking for value, Lee makes good stuff at a good price.
Bfly

Hey arminius

Lee Collet Neck Sizers are the best neck sizing dies you can buy. They yield very little run out and are easy to use once you get the hang of it.

Lee Full Length Dies are as good as any of the rest of them (not that any die with an expander button is any good at all IMO).

Lee Seaters and not as good as most other seaters. They can be tricky to adjust correctly and sometimes the part that hits the bullet on the ogive will leave marks (not that it matters much).

Lee Factroy Crimp Dies are the very best crimpers. You don't have to crimp into a cannelure, don't have to have exactly the same trim length and can adjust from a little crimp to as much as you want.

For every caliber I load for I have the following set of dies:

• Lee Collet Neck Sizer
  
• Redding Body Die
  
• Either RCBS or Redding Competition bullet seater
  
• Lee Factory Crimp Die

So essentially I save enough money on the 2 Lee Dies to buy the best bullet seating die I can buy.

I have some Lee die sets and they have loaded good ammo but if I had the chance to buy again I'd buy Redding rifle dies and RCBS carbide pistol dies. The Lee dies are less expensive but they are cheaply made and the lack of quality becomes apparent over time. No more Lee for me.

I have a dozen of dies, mainly RCBS and a few Lyman and only a set of 270 WSM Lee FL dies; the inside of the sizer was rough and I had to polish it. The overall quality of craftmanship and steel seems to me only average. Few days ago I bought a set of 375 HH RCBS FL dies and they are a better product indeed. Furthermore I dislike the cheapo Lee plastic boxes and lock rings.

I am very happy with mine and load very well with them.

In the early 80's I bought a Lee Pro1000. It was the only reasonably priced progressive on the market at the time that worked and had a powder measuring system that was reliable. I loaded over 10,000 rounds of pistol and .223 ammo on that press. I was told by reloading "experts" that the press was junk and would wear out or break in under 2,000 rounds. They were wrong.

When I bought the press I also bought Lee carbide 9mm, 380, 38/357, 44mag and 45 acp dies. Once again, the "experts" laughed and told me I wasted my money. The dies would only last for a thousand or so rounds before they would wear eggshaped and ruin the brass.

I sold the Pro1000 in 2005. I kept the dies to use for short runs on single stage presses. The 45acp dies have over 4000 rounds thru them and still are round. All of the other Lee carbide dies except the 380 have at least 1000 rounds thru them and are also round. It seems the experts were wrong again.

For those wondering why I got rid of the Lee Pro 1000. No, it didn't wear out. In 1989 I bought a Dillon 1050 to load pistol in high volume. In 2005 I bought a Dillon Super 1050 to load high volume rifle cartridges. I sold the Lee press for $10.00 more that I paid for it, and the new owner is still using it trouble free.

Long story short. There is nothing wrong with Lee dies.

I prefer seating dies that have an alignment sleeve that holds the bullet and case mouth in alignment before the bullet enters the case mouth. Lee seating dies do not have this feature.

Such seating dies are available from RCBS (competition series), Redding (competition series), Hornady (all dies), and Forster (all dies). I like Hornady and Forster personally.

In full length sizing dies, upgrades from the standard design include "match" or bushing style dies that avoid excessively working the case neck (available from RCBS, Redding, Forster, and Hornady), "raised expander" dies (RCBS competition, and Forster) that start the expansion while the case neck is still held centered in the neck portion of the die, and the RCBS X die that keeps case length growth in check, eliminating the need to re-trim brass after repeated firings.

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by Arminius:
WTK: I used LEE ( pistol caliber ) dies a lot. I am quite satisfied with them ( .357, 9 mm, .45 ACP )

I REALLY like their case lenght trim system, their Primer seater and, when necessary, their ( carbide ) factory crimp die.

But for my .30 - 06´s I loaded up to now only with RCBS, also for my .44 Mag.

Now I intend to extend my reloading to more calibers: .222, 7 x 57R, 9.3 x 62, more .30-06, 7 x 57, ...

Please tell me: how good are LEE dies? I know people, who would never consider anything less it´s green or blue coloured, but snobism aside:

how good are they really?

Lets say for a combo gun stricty for hunting, for 2 Mausers for fun shooting and eventually competition?

Thankful for any inputs, Gents.

Hermann

Dies....... you get what you pay for.

Lee does make some decent stuff and they all do a good job. I have a lot of their stuff. I want top accuracy from my revolvers though and have scrapped all of my RCBS dies because they do not give the accuracy I want.
I went to Hornady dies and accuracy has gone up drastically. I also bought some for my rifles and use the 45-70 dies for my BFR revolver.
Years ago I thought 2" to 4" at 25 yd's was good from a revolver, then learned 1/2" to 1" at 50 yd's was better. I now have too many 1" or less groups at 100 yd's to ever go back to RCBS pistol dies. My 200 yd groups are better then what I used to get at 25 yd's.
Do dies matter? You better believe it, and Hornady dies are not expensive. I have a lot of bench rest dies, even a special set for the .44 mag, yet the Hornady dies do as good.
Redding has always been good if I sent them back to be lapped for minimum sizing on a rifle case, and the collar dies are now the best. There are a lot of great dies but they cost too much now that I am retired.
If you want to blast 500 rounds of .45 ACP, Lee dies are good but if I want to hit a beer can at 200 yd's with a revolver, I won't buy them.
I just shot a spray paint can twice at 100 yd's with my .475 BFR revolver and a 410 gr cast WFN boolit from my home made mold. Both holes are in the center of the can and from center to center measures .284". Yes, Hornady dies. And I use an Ultra Dot with a 4 minute dot, not a scope. I blew up too many scopes on this gun.

I bought 7 different sets of Lee Dies and some other Lee stuff when I started reloading. My major gripe with Lee, and I have shared it with them, is that they use cast aluminum on pressure bearing parts. For example, the 4 hole turret in the Classic Turret press is cast aluminum. The rest of the friggin thing is built like a tank, but the part that must withstand all the pressure is made of a cheap cast metal. I broke mine the first time sizing .308 brass. Likewise, the end cap on the collet neck size die is made of the same cheap cast. Broke mine the first time sizing .223. Of course they replace them at no charge, but I have incurred $12.00 in shipping costs in 6 months. Like I said, that's really my only gripe with their stuff (so far). ~Marc

Thanks for all the answers!

I surely will not throw away my LEE .357 or .45 dies. I always wondered, if the LEE adjustment ( die down to press, with ram up, and then countering with LEE rings ) is not superior to RCBS. I will try this in the .30-06 in the next time. Maybe I add a seater die with sliding sleeve.

And maybe I will buy my next die set from Hornady, if I get them in Europe. Does Sinclair stock them? I have .44 Mag dies from RCBS, will test with 2 .44 Mag LA´s, eventually Hornady? I am sure I don´t shoot the mighty 44 well enough from my M 29 6" to tell any difference there ;-) The gun shoots MUCH better than I can!

To bfrshooter: maybe its not only the dies, but your extremely well made custom revolvers, that lets you get tighter groups?

I will be very happy with consistent 10 shot groups of 2 1/2" at 25 Meters ...

Nope, not custom guns at all. My last 1", 100 yd groups were with my cast boolit that weighs 330 gr's from my old .44 Super Blackhawk that has 57,750 rounds through it. I used 21.5 gr's of 296 and the Fed 150 primer. I used to hit beer cans at 200 with a Super Redhawk with a 4X scope, from sandbags. I used 240 XTP's for that gun. It would hold under 1" at 50 with a cast boolit too. My friend talked me out of it when I needed money for another BFR.
My BFR's are not custom either, right off the shelf. All I do are trigger jobs on them all.
A model 29 will shoot 1/2" groups at 50 meters, I used to do it all the time from Creedmore position and open sights. I had 5 of them and all would do it. Now I can't even see if the gun has sights and need the red dot.
The 29 is grip sensitive but is extremely accurate. I have never matched it's accuracy with any other gun but because of the way the point of impact shifts when you put the gun down and pick it back up again, I never did good with them in silhouette. Once a group is started, never change the way it is held or put it down. I used to shoot two 1/2" groups and one would be 10" away from the first because I had to put down the gun between groups. I would hit the first 5 chickens dead center and miss the next 5.
A Bisley grip is also a little sensitive.
Remember also that the heavier the recoil, the more perfect the hold must be to stop different barrel rises and torque.
But you must use the right load, components and loading technique. All of my guns can probably shoot 3X better then I can shoot them.

quote:

Originally posted by Arminius:
And maybe I will buy my next die set from Hornady, if I get them in Europe. Does Sinclair stock them?

Sinclair does not carry Hornady. However, everybody else does. Lock, Stock & Barrel has Hornady at lower prices than most. They do ship internationally.

www.lockstock.com 1-800-228-7925

Graf & Sons, Midway, and Midsouth Shooters Supply are other suppliers. You will want to compare shipping costs, minmimum order, etc.

Hornady also has a micrometer head to adapt their seating dies, if you're interested. Not as upscale as the Redding or Forster micrometer dies, but a definite upgrade, and it can be moved from die to die for economy. You will also like the Hornady lock rings.

Good shopping.

Lee dies lead to a LOT more frustration than other brands. There's always some little thing wrong. From the 7.5x55 dies that aren't reamed to the right spec to the .45-70 dies that won't expand the case mouth or the .500 S&W dies that the carbide breaks on after sizing 5 shells. I'd spend the little bit of extra cash and get RCBS or Lyman dies.

Man, I am lucky. I have over 15 sets of dies. Most of them in red boxes. I have 2 red presses and a green one. I have a red scale and 3 red powder measures. I even have molds that came in red boxes. And, after loading many thousands of rounds with them, I have never had the problems that seem to plague most every Lee product. I wish this streak would carry over to the card tables. I must be the luckiest consumer out there. The only problem I have ever had with a set of dies, I caused. (Green box) Stuck case. I better call my wife and have her check out my bench and see if all my red stuff has broken off the bolts and hit the garage floor. Surely my lucky streak can't hold out much longer.

Now I do love the RCBS presses and a lot of their other stuff, it is just some of their dies I don't like, not all of them. I have found that I just need to pick and choose tools for each caliber and they will be mixed between all the companies.
Don't think I am against RCBS, Lee or Lyman. I have used their stuff forever. I just need to pick between dies for a caliber. Some work and others don't. I am only thankful that we have all of them to work with.
It is like bullets! How would all of you like only one company making bullets? How about only one powder for all of our guns?
If RCBS makes you good loads, don't change anything. There are other factors involved in the gun, brass and a thousand other things that will determine which tools work the best.
I use a Lyman, Lee or RCBS press, a Lyman scale, a Redding measure, RCBS neck turner and RCBS case trimmer. Redding, Lee, RCBS, Hornady, Lyman and bench rest dies. I can't even list all the rest!
It is when you ask about specific calibers that I will say what I find works best. They are still only my opinions and you might find different.

Never had any trouble and have several sets. I like some of their inovations that other kinds don't have.

quote:

Originally posted by jerkface11:
Lee dies lead to a LOT more frustration than other brands. There's always some little thing wrong. From the 7.5x55 dies that aren't reamed to the right spec to the .45-70 dies that won't expand the case mouth or the .500 S&W dies that the carbide breaks on after sizing 5 shells. I'd spend the little bit of extra cash and get RCBS or Lyman dies.

Are all the 7.5X55 dies bad or just yours? Mine work fine.LEE products work fine for me and my father uses them also with great success. I also like there innovative ideas.

I have Lee, RCBS, Redding, Lyman and Pacific dies. The only one that I ever had a factory quality control problem on was a Pacific 223 FL sizing die. The hole in the top of the die that the decapping stem threads into was bored crooked so the pin is not centered.

All die makers have a problem in that they can't match what everyone needs or wants. It amazes me they do as good as they do.
Most bottle neck dies size the neck too much and then have to expand too much. (The Redding dies cure that but are expensive and you need a selecton of collars for different brass and if it is neck turned.) It can be fixed. Some dies do not have a floating bullet seater to align the bullet. Rcbs pistol dies expand too much for bullet tension but can be fixed. I understand they fixed the .45 Colt to work properly. The reason I like Hornady is that they combine the best attributes in one die set. Companies used to custom lap dies to fit the fired cases you send them but now they charge for it. I hate to pay for that plus postage.
It is a question of what you can get for the money spent. It is hard when retired, to buy all kinds of fixes.

There is more variation between dies of the same brand than there is between brands. Lee's dies load as well as any other and the price is much less. Most, if not all, the money we spend on other brands goes into the outside finish.

That said, there are some triffling differences in features and each of us might justly like one better than the others but not because of the price.

I have over 40 sets of dies by about 15 makers. Many of them are duplicates so I can actually test them instead of just look at them and see which is prettiest. The Lees do just as well as any of the conventional types. Even a BR shooter loading on a press for a factory weapon won't do any better with one brand over another, for the most part.

I have found that Redding and Forster/Bonanza Competiton/BR SEATERS are excellant but they are not conventional. On average, ALL of the other brands and types are tied for second place.

Anyone who disagrees should get a concentricity gage and check a few loads from the various dies available. That one gage can really open your eyes to new realities!

Well said! If a die gives you good loads, it doesn't matter what brand they are. My biggest problem is with the .44 and .45 with some dies and it is mostly the expanders supplied.

bfr, I sure understand about problems with expanders for pistol ammo, especially for lead bullets.

I really like Lyman's pistol dies for their "M" expander, it has two expander steps AND a flare - if it's needed - so it works well to allow easy starting without being length critical.

BUT, just yesterday I examined a new set of Redding .44 dies and found they are now using an expander plug that is a Lyman clone. Don't know when they started that but it is a really good straight wall case expander design.

So Lyman and Redding have the best expanders available but, so far as I know, only Lyman makes them from bottleneck cartridges too. I use them for every case I reload for, including jacketed bullets, just to keep necks straight AND for easy bullet starting.

VERY interesting!

so, if there are problems, I´ll try:

bench rest type, free floating seater die(s)

Lyman M expanding die ( and no expander ball in the sizer die? )

Factory crimp die, if there must be a crimp.

Thanks to all for the good info´s!

H