I have never had any of these cartridges, and now I am being asked about them, and have no idea.

What is the differences between the 8x57, 8x57j and 8x57js?

My concern is the bullet diameter.

Letter "J" is actualy a letter "I" that means "infanterie" (German for "infantry") and "S" stands for Spitzgeschoß ("pointed bullet").
Bullet diameter for 8x57IS is 8.20 mm (0.323 in). and bullet diameter for 8x57I is 8.07 mm (.318 in).

Thank you.

I seem to remember reading there was a difference, and ammo for one cannot be used in another??

No problem Saeed, 8x57I is actually obsolete and rather hard to come by (almost non existent). Letter "S" is also added on 8x68S nad it points out that the bullet is 0.323 " in dia.

Saeed:

I reload for 8x57IS. RL-17 works great with Norma Oryx bullet. But you will use your own bullets, right?

Jiri

One of the real headaches in metric calibers is the 8mm mess. The first iteration of the German 8x57 was for the 1888 Commission Rifle, and that was called the 8x57J (Infantry) which is the same as 8x57I, and it used .318" round nosed bullets of approximately 230 grains weight. This same cartridge was used later when the German Army converted to the 1898 Mauser rifle. This round became quite popular as a sporting round as well in both rimless and rimmed (8x57JR = 8x57IR) forms.

In the early 1900s the German Army experimented with lighter weight pointed 'Spitzer' bullets at much higher velocity and in the process discovered that bore erosion became a problem. Their solution was to increase the groove depth by .005" and the resulting cartridge with 154 grain spitzer bullets of .323" diameter was called the 8x57JS (8x57IS) and introduced in 1905. This also became a popular sporting round, although the sporting industry clung to the older .318" 'J' standard for many years. By a very wide margin most of the 8mm break open single shots, combos and drillings are set up for the smaller "J" diameter. The designation of the 8x57 rimmed cartridge with the .323" bullet became 8x57JRS.

These days we are left with the problem of figuring out just what bore and groove dimensions all these old 8mm rifles have, and not just the 8x57 pair but nearly all the other German sporting 8mm cartridges. A few of the sporting rifles are actually clearly marked as 'S' bores, but most are not. Also, a very few German sporting 8mm cartridges have only been issued as 'S' bores, notably the 8x68S. The only way to determine what a German "8mm" rifle's bore and groove size really is, is to slug the bore.

There are lots of .323" 8mm bullets available, not so many .318" any more, though Woodleigh makes some very nice ones in .318" diameter.

As an aside, most of the German "J" bore rifles I have personally measured have had groove diameters of .320 -.321" even though they were intended for .318" bullets.

As another aside, the Austrian and French 8mm rounds like the military 8x50R Austrian, 8x56R Austrian, 8x50R Lebel, and even the sporting 8x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer have even larger groove diameters, typically running .326" to .330" !

My reference for most of the above is W.B.Dixon's "European Sporting Cartridges", vol I, particularly page 126.

the 8x57js brass i have is also rimmed - i use it to form 6rir

8x57JS (IS) is no way rimmed. Rimmed version is JR (IR) or JRS (IRS).

8x57IS: https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uplo...b-i/8-x-57-is-en.pdf

8X57IRS: https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uplo...ii/8-x-57-irs-en.pdf

Jiri

I just recently acquired a Sako-Mauser in "8x60". Sako's factory records list both an "8x60" and an "8x60S". I was unsure whether the records listing was simply shorthand or if there were actually two different bore diameters in the (somewhat rare) Sako-Mauser 8mm's. However, the best I can measure the groove diameter by simply inserting a caliper into the muzzle is that it measures .318" instead of .323", so it would be the "J"-bore and not the "S"-bore.

I have some unfired Norma 8x60S brass, and can load it using regular 8x57 dies on hand using typical .323" bullets. In my experience, a bullet that is only .005" oversized will swage down upon firing without much "complaint" and usually provide adequate accuracy. This assumes that the chamber throat is large enough to accommodate the slightly larger bullet. I will start with a fairly modest powder load to compensate for the extra pressure caused by the oversized bullet.

Assuming I am still physically able to do so afterward, I will report on the results.