Howdy all,
I need to pick the collective brain of this group.
I happened accross a rifle for sale today with the fore mentioned caliber.
Do not know much about the specifics of the gun itself,will see it tomorrow.
The description i got over the phone was given by someone unfamiliar with firearms.
What i want to know is what can i expect from this caliber,pros,cons.
Hell,i don't even know why i am going to look at it other than for the reason i do not have one
It appears to be a military rifle,turned down bolt,Burris bases and rings,and the dies which say 6.5 x 257.
Owner says it has a real nice stock with a laid over cheek piece,a large palm grip.
Anyone know of some history,reloading info,etc on this one?
It just seems to intrique me.
I will let anyone interested know what i get tomorrow.
Thanks all,
Z

Unless I miss my guess this is a Type 38 Japanese rifle originally chambered in 6.5X50 Japanese. This round does NOT share dimensions with any other brass.
6.5X257 was the answer to the lack of boxer primed or any brass/loaded ammuniton for the 6.5s when they started entering the US. Put a 6.5 pilot on a 257 reamer in the early days and normal 6.5X257 reamer later and it is a quick clean-up. Also gets rid of a chamber that is "always out of round (at least every one I have seen)!
Just reading Ackley last night and as he tried to blow up this action he found comercial barrels failed before the action!
2700-2900 is likely with gun in good proper condition and the right load with the 120-129 grain bullet.
I have one that has a barrel interior surface as ugly as home-made sin, but it will hold 1-1.5 inches and as they say dead is dead and around here that is plenty good to put one down! 120-129 grain 6.5 has a pretty dandy BC and SD so will carry fairly well and if the theory is correct penetrate also.
LouisB
Just an opinion of course!

That said it is likely a piece f junk and you should get it and send it to me for proper disposal. ;>

TCLouis,
thanks for the info.
I guess the $100.00 the guy is asking isn't too bad of a price then
Anything i should be specifically aware of when checking it out?
Do you know of any old time smiths that did this kind of work,i am guessing this isn't a recent chamber job.
My wife thinks i am crazy,but tomorrow is my
B-Day and i just have to buy another gun.
My 14 yr old gave me a .45 cal BP rifle today,a day early,ahhh life is good.
Thanks,
Z

The 6.5-.257 Roberts was a popular wildcat in the 50's and 60's. A lot were built on the Jap actions but not exclusively. When you get right down to it the .257 Roberts is based on the 7x57 mauser case so there is really no difference between the 6.5-.257 Roberts and the 6.5X57 Mauser. You can make brass by running .257 Roberts cases through the full length sizer die. There is published load data for that case, I can't remember where I've seen it though. You could use 7X57 Mauser data if you start on the low end and work your way up slowly. Good luck.

100 bucks ? ? ?
. . .
Not seeing the rifle I can't say. May not be willing to say even if I could see the gun. I assume the safety was a big round checkered object on the back of the bolt (this sets off all Japanese rifles of any real import to shooters). Some berate this safety, but it is simple effective and easy to use. They also complain about cock on closing (yeah it takes a little more effort to close the bolt . . . Big Deal!)part of the mechanism.
Hornady (volume 4), this site and I think Steve's reloading site have data for 6.5X257 or 6.5X57.
The difference in the two is the same as the parent cartridges ( would be the same if Remington had left Roberts design alone), the shoulder angle.
6.5X257 dies are available for reasonable sum.
There is absolutely no way to tell who did the work and how well it was done.
Make sure you feed the 45 Caliber present from your son the true black powder it was born to shoot.

Shoot SAFE
Shoot Straight
LouisB
Just my opinions of course!

TCLouis,
I purchased the rifle today.
Yes it has the serrated knob on the saftey.
I like it,it is quiet,and easy to manipulate.
Who ever did the work was very good.
The Walnut stock is beautiful ,the cheek piece and surrounding shadow is flawless.
The fore end has a dropped semi heart shape that blends very well with the wood grain.
The action is bedded with free floating from the lug forward,the barrel is shortened to 18 1/2".
There is a front sight,but it appears the rear
apature has been removed for scope mounting.
The bluing is deep with a high lustre,even the caliber stamping is inline with clear even numbers.
The bolt is smooth,lock up is good and the bore is shiney with excellent rifling.
The bolt has an unusual design machined in to the top,similar to the design of the foreend,with the under side of the bolt having a checkering pattern that is tight with circular accents.
I am guessing,but i do not think it has been shot very much at all.
I will do a Cerrosafe cast of the chamber before loading for it,it did come with several rounds already loaded but not knowing anything about them i will probably pull them down for components.
The dies look good,no manufactuer name on them,but the measurements appear to be good,there is a good polish inside and the expander measures out good.
All in all it is a very nice little rifle with a lot of craftsmanship showing through out.
I do not know the original demensions of the rifle but i would classify it as a carbine now.
I hope it shoots as good as it looks.
If i had a digital camera i would post a pic or 2.
Thank you for your informative replys.
Dennis Z

18 1/2 inch barrel sounds like you may well have a gun sporterized from a type 38 carbine.
The gun was made in two sizes rifle with 31 or 32 inch barrel (really long for someone of my stature let alone for someone whose genetics typically had them 6"-8" shorter in height)and the carbine.
I will have to dig the notes out from the days when my gun was built (68-69). The carbine preferred a different bullet (yes the gunsmith who built mine was a friend) as I remember it.
I have seen ONLY one of the Type 38s, also a carbine with a pristine barrel and regret not buying it.
It was perfect military rifle and had a walnut rather than mahogany stock and it was LIKE NEW. For those who know the gun, yes, it was the two piece stock, just made out of walnut (Italian contract early in the rifles production as it was explained to me later).

Keep us (me) posted on the progress as you get to shooting the gun!
LouisB
My rifle with barrel cut to 24" will usually put 129 Hornady in about 1.25" group with a load of (old) 4831 Little bigger with the WC852 slow I use now.

You may want to look in the rifle section of this page http://stevespages.com .
You may want to sneak up on 48 grains of 4831 and then go from there IF tou get comfy with the action, chamber, pressures!
He as a pretty good selection of loading data, just compare with other data when you are suspect.
LouisB

TCLouis,
After closer examination i found a couple things
you may be able to help with.
The magazine well is lined with metal as if it was magazine fed at one time,but now it has a fitted plate with spring and follower on top.
This box so to speak is well fitted into the stock.(stock is not original)
This plate has a lip that fits into a small notch
and is released by a small button in the trigger guard,is this normal.The fit and finish is excellent and i do like the looks of it.
There is a lug in front of the reciever but it does not appear to be original judging from the finish,could this have been a replacement even though the action and barrel appear original?
Now i just need Brownells to get my Cerrosafe to me so i can measure out the chamber.
I found several rounds of 6.5 Jap Norma re brass in the stuff that came with the rifle,i hope some moron did not try and shoot it
The dies that came with the rifle has some markings on them,maybe you might know something about them.
The sizing die has 257 x 6.5 and the letters
A.A.Easton,but this die has a black finish.
The seater has the 6.5 etched in front of a stamped 257 with the letters R S T R and has a chrome finish.
The lock rings are 6 sided,but much larger than any others i have,they use a slot headed screw to lock the ring.
On the seater die the plug is short with a large nut to hold it into place,the sizer is similar to a RCBS,the expander is also coated with this black finish.
I also found an old inventory tag,like the kind gunshops put on their wares,the price listed was $300.00 including listed accessories,i found it interesting.
Need to research load info now
Will probably try faster powders with the small case and short barrel,hope lighter bullets work well.
I will keep any and all posted on what developes.
Thanks for your help.
Dennis

I loaded some ammo a few years back in 6.5x57 for an old boy had one his daddy built, old wildcatter back in the Ackley days. We used 7x57 brass, headspacing was poor when we full length sized,(primers blew 1/2 way out) we backed the dies out until we got a secondary shoulder and a tight fit in the chamber similar to making 7-30 waters from 30-30. It has deer killing accuracy. I can look thru my sources for some load data, sems like the Hodgdons manual had a little as did cartridges of the world.

This rifle has the original 30 or 31" bbl, I didnt measure it tho I did try to talk him into cutting it off a bit. The load we used was using 160gr bullets, CCI 200 Primers and 43gr. of H4831
Wes

KTS1,
It sure does seem H4831 is the powder for this round,most all of the sites with any load info list this powder.
I was thinking more along the lines of a BAll Powder.
I have noticed primers sticking out on several of the cases that came with the gun.
I belive the shoulder problem you discuss is definitley something to look out for.
I was playing with the dies tonite and figured out that i do not want to full length resize,only neck size after fire forming to the chamber.
I did notice that ring just below the shoulder,didn't know what make of it,you just answered that question.
I want to stick to lighter bullets,paper punching and the occassinal coyote.
This one will be for the wife to shoot so i want to get it dialed in soon.
Thanks for the info,
Z

Z, I did not realize you were looking for data for your 6.5-257. If this is the case, surely the location to start, would have to be data for the 6.5x57 (as other forum members have pointed out). After all, both the .257 Roberts and 6.5x57 share the same basic case (7x57 is the original parent, I believe - could be the 8x57, though :-)

The 6.5x57 is an exceedingly common cartridge in Europe. It is often faulted for having too much free-bore - a fairly common affliction with many of the older European cartridges - perhaps because of their military origin??

Anyway, one source for 6.5x57 data is:

http://www.vihtavuori.fi/vihtavuori/index.html

This will list propellants readily avilable in the US.

Have fun - mike