Last year I picked up a winchester Model 70 featherweight in 7mm-08 for my girl friend. She ended up shooting a .243 this fall which had a shorter stock for her. (We have now
got a shorter stock coming for her.)I took it out before the season to see how my loads were
doing as she was going to let me hunt with it. Now, I have been reloading for over 20 years
and in that time have never had a problem getting a rifle to shoot an inch or better at 100yds.
Until now. I have used 10 different bullets, over 3 different powders and still do not have a
group that I feel this rifle should be capeable of that is useable on Elk. Every time I shoot a poor
group I take out some 115 speer HP's and they go in to as little as .277" for 3 shots @
100. Any bullet I feel is suitable for Elk shoots, at best into about 1 3/8" and have had some
go as large as 5". I have bedded the recoil lug, floated the barrel, replaced the scope, took the
trigger down to 3 1/2 pounds scrubbed it's bore till I'm blue in the face, seated the bullets
in/out. Of the 10 bullet I have used only 2 have shot under an inch, the 115 Speer HP and
the 130 Speer Sp. neither will I use for Elk. The best I have at this time is 154 Hornadys with
50.5 gr. RL-19, Fed. 210 and Win. brass. I scratch my head and wonder "Is it the crown?"
but if it were then why will the 115 speers shoot so well? Then I wonder "Is it the twist?"
Winchester shows that they use a 1 in 10" twist, but surelythey ment for a featherweight
to shoot big game. I have not tried other brass or primers but probably will after my Elk hunt
this month.

Does anyone here have any thing to add? something I have overlooked? It just about
has me beat. Every big game rifle I have ever loaded for will shoot well with midweight to heavy
bullets and Hodgdon/IMR 4350 or Hodgdon/IMR 4831. I have never really had to look
much further. Anything you can add would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, John.

Check the twist yourself, if it is 1-10 then that is probably your problem IMHO. The 1-9.5 Savage I have will not shoot anything over 140s with any consistancy but loves the 120grain Sierras.

2/j
Here's my advice, and it's worth what you paid for it

get some 154 horn RN or barnes 140 X, and load them, start at, .025, .0275, .030, .0325. With barnes, you may as well start at .035. Off the rifling. The procedure for doing this is in every reloadling manual.

You get the picture. Load these at a medium load, not worrying about vel yet.

How does it shoot 139? I've not seen a 708 that wouldn't shoot jamup, without a fairly obvious problem.

jeffe

Try W760, RL15, or H414 with the same 154 Hornady and I am almost sure that you will see a noticeable difference; I did.

Heavy Varmint,
I have not checked this gun but the Winchester catalog shows a 1 in10. It doesn't make any sense that they would use too slow a twist in a big game rifle in which you would be using long heavy bullets. But then you never know. Some of my loading manuals list some Weatherby 7mm Mags. using twist as slow as 1 in12. you would think that they would never be able to shoot 160 and 175 grain bullets in those if a 1 in 10 is too slow for 140 and 150 grain bullets. It is a possability but just doesn't add up. I will have to check this barrel to see just what twist it actually has.

jeffeosso,
I have a few 140 X's given to me and have shot one load of them. They shot about 2.5". Loaded them with 48 gr. H-4350, Fed. 210 and Win. brass. I could try some more of them but will probably not until next spring. I have shot both 139 SP as well as 139 SST. (I really wanted to use the SST as they shoot so well in my 280.) The 139 SP load I tried shot about 2" and the best I have with the 139 SST is about 2.25". This was the best of 4 loads I tried. I seated them just off the lands but had to load them one at a time as they were too long for the magizine.

Thunderstick,
I have not tried any W760 or RL-15 but have shot some H-414. H-414 is what shoots so well with the 115 Speers. It did get fair velosity from this rifle's 22" barrel with 154 SP (2756 average.) I was going to try some Varget but may have to try some others too. If I remember correctly, a friend of mine really likes the RL-15 in his 257 imp.

Thanks for all your input. John.

I have the same rifle,bought it for my wife three years ago. Her's will shoot heavy bullet like 160's or 175's very accurately. My problem is poor velocity. I ended up using VARGET and 160 grain Speer Hot-Cores for her elk load. The velocity is a mere 2500 fps, but its accurate and seems to work fine.

Don't get all wound around the axle over accuracy though. One does NOT need a 1 inch shooter to kill an elk. A load that will consistently group in the same spot, day in, day out ,at a decent velocity, with a strong enough bullet for the job is what you want.

Try some VARGET , it made a world of difference with her rifle.

FN in MT

Have you tried IMR 4895? I'm using 41.5gr with a 140gr Barnes XLC-XBT for MOA accuracy and 2830fps. Bullet is approx. .035 off the lands.

Frank,
At this time I think I'll probably hunt with the 154 Hornady's. They are not the most accurate (about 1 3/8") but should do oaky. Maybe I'm just spoiled as all my other centerfires will shoot well under an inch. Shoot I get 1 1/4" from both of my black powder rifles. The 154 load that I'll be using is 1.5 grains hotter than the ones I ran accross the chronograph. Those went 2558 average so I hope that I have gained 100 fps. or more. We'll see when I have the right day and the chronograph isn't being fussy. Do plan on using some "Varget" as well as some other brands of brass and primers but will have to be after the hunt. (Have vacation to start next friday so don't have time to be messing with much more.)

Super 88,
4895 is something that has crossed my mind, however I ran out of it shortly after I sold T/C contender and don't have any of it on hand at this time. Yet something else to try later on.

Heavy Varmint,
Had the cleaning rod out thim morning so checked the twist. It ended up being 1 in 9.25". that should be plenty fast enough to stableize 140-150 grain bullets.

I did find a load that shot well with different brass but will have to scrap it as it is a bit too warm. 4 out of 5 well under an inch, about 3/4", counting the 5th., about 1.5" however it was the one that put up a little fight when I lifted the bolt handel. Have loaded a few more of those with 1 grain and 1/2 grain less powder and will see how they do the next time out. John.

Well, it has been about a decade and a half since I shot an elk with my 7mm-08, but my load was 49 grains of W760 with a 140 Partition chronographing at 2948 fps. Killed 'em dead. It consistantly shot around 1/2".

Of course, this was a Browning A-Bolt that wouldn't shoot over an inch with anything....

Just a little follow up. It looks like I will settle on the 154 gr. Hornady loaded on top of 50.5 gr. Reloader 19 with a Federal 210 primer and Winchester brass giving an average of 2,620 fps. Yesterday I got a group right at an inch . I put together enough to play with today as well as for the hunt. Tonight I shot them at 200 and 300 yards. I did better with them than I did with my own rifle. At 300 I went 3 for 4 on milk jugs full of water. That should be plenty good enough as I don't want to shot any farther than that. Will post again after the hunt. John.

H380 does well in my wifes 7mm08 with 139gr Hornadys. I wouldn't dare get her mad at me with the way it groups....

Not to really start the arguement, but could it be the Winchester? I had a model 70 that I had to trade off...one group was 2 inches, one was 4, and so forth. No consistency whatsoever.

Try H380 and good luck.

jeff

Your accuracy expectations from a stock factory rifle are not realisitic. Any stock factory hunting rifle that will produce MOA groups is considered a fine shooting factory rifle. Some factory rifles take some rounds through the bore before they settle down and shoot well.

The vast majority of factory rifles have very rough bores and that does not help accuracy. Some factory rifles are very finiky as to what powder and bullet they will like best. It sounds as if your 7-08 is one of those rifles. If you keep the rifle and continue to experiment with different powder bullet combinations on day you will find that magic load the rifle like best.

There are many powders and bullets you have not yet tried along with trigger pull tuning and free floating the barrel. In my view a hunting rifle with a 2 1/2 lb trigger pull is ideal for best hunting accuracy potential. Few factory rifles will give you their best accuracy with the trigger pull set at factory specs.

Confidence in your hunting rifle is paramount to success in the field. Any hunting rifle that will produce 2" groups at 100 yards will harvest any game animal out to 250 yards with ease. The kill zone right behind the shoulder on any Elk is the size of a box of breakfast cereal. You must readjust your thingking as to the realisitic accuracy potential of any factory rifle. The MOA group used for many years as the rule of thumb to judge a factory rifles accuracy potential is still true today.

Reloader 66,

I agree 100% with the "box of breakfast cereal" scenario. IMHO the kill zone is really even BIGGER.

Years ago I got so caught up in a rifles ACCURACY potential that I would use improper bullets in order to get that last degree of accuracy. That practice bit me in the ass a few times and I finally realized it. Match bullets, or lightly constructed bullets, are NOT always the best choice for many hunting situations. Especially for elk.

I had a Rem 700 that seldom if EVER shot better than 1 1/2" at 100 yds and just under 3" at 200 yds,with decent hunting bullets. But this rifle seemed to ALWAYS print +2" at 100yds and right on at 250yds, CONSISTENTLY, CONSTANTLY day in day out. I ended up killing more game, usually cleanly with one shot , than all my super accurate match rifles, put together. There's a lesson to be learned there. At least I did.

I surely like accurate hunting rifles and own a few. But I'm now more concerned with consistent accuracy,and groups that do not move, than match accuracy.

FN in MT

[ 12-15-2002, 21:01: Message edited by: Frank Nowakowski ]

Well now that the holidays and the hunting is over I will continue to search more for a better load but not in as big of a rush as before.
The hunting went well. Got there late on friday, had rain, snow and fog all day saturday. Sunday was still foggy when we got up at 5:30am so went back to sleep. By 7:00 things had cleared off so hurried to have breakfast and get out and glass. By 8:30 we had some Elk to stalk. My partner, who many of you may know here as Idaho Ron got the shot this day. One shot at less than 100 yards on a broadside cow. His pre-64 model 70 in 270 done quite well as it always has in the past. Lucky for him he has me for a friend, as while we were stalking this bunch of Elk I noticed that he had 2 shells in his shell holder that had no primers in them. I pointed this out to him and then he checked his gun. Sure enough, the one he had chambered had no primer either. He found a total of 4. Have not figured this one out yet. He said that they were once fired factory brass and did not recall any primers that felt loose going in and said he remembered them being there when he loaded his shell holder. We were wondering if the tempratures had anything to do with it. Anyhow he got a good one in the chamber before taking a shot. She was just about 100 yards drag in the snow to the road. Loaded her whole. Too bad we could not have gotten her before we made it to the top of the mountain. I believe his GPS said we had gained something like 1500 feet elevation in about 1/2 mile!
The next day we found another heard. Had about the same climb but over a greater distence. Started our stalk and was not out for long when we had a nasty wind change our plans and later started blowing snow in our face. Ron stayed back the last 50 yards or so as I moved along on my hands and knees. I was almost to where I wanted to take the shot from when I figured I could no longer keep myself hidden from the 40 plus sets of eyes. I made my way over The log in front of me and laid my day pack amoung the limbs. I took out the early Christmas gift from my girl friend, a Leica LRF 800, which told me that they were right at 216 yards. They were all laying in the snow covered with all the fresh stuff that had been blowing in my face. Their rear ends all facing me so I put the cross hairs at the bace of her neck. This was probably as dead as I have ever killed an Elk. The bullet hit right where I had put the cross hairs. We figured that we were in for the mother of all drags to get her out. We rolled and drug her down all the steep stuff until it became dark. The walk out that night proved to be the crappy part. By the time we had made the stalk, up and over the mountain and came out the next drainage, it was closer to walk back to camp. The death march took us threw snow and darkness but we made it, covered in snow, wet and beat down. we came back the next morning thinking we would have a real fight to get her the rest of the way out, but over night we had got about another foot of new snow. We quartered her up took her in quarters therw the first 100 yards or so of the really nasty stuff, then loaded our plastic kiddie sleds with 1/2 an elk each and down the hill we went.
The skunks off her rifle now but its going to cost me, now I have to make her a set of ear rings from the ivorys! Oh well, live and learn, but then again she's worth it! John

I found out why the primers came out. Another guy from this list asked if I had checked how loose the pockets were. I pushed another primer in with my thumb.
Ron

Here is a 7mm-08 web site that you may check out. My Savage 7mm-08 shoots the 140gn Nosler BT with 42.3 grains of Varget extremely accurate.

http://members.tripod.com/sed88/rem7/

2/J:

I have had the same problem with a fussy 7mm08. From all of my experimenting with different powders, bullets, primers, etc., I have found that the bullet and more specifically bullet weight made the most difference in my group sizes. My rifle likes 120 grain bullets.

I would give up some accuracy and go with a heavier bullet if I were elk hunting with this rifle but for whitetails, I feel like the 120's will be fine. Good luck.
x-caliber