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Velocity Deviation in handloads?
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Another "new guy" question.
I just put 30 rounds through the 300WSM Vanguard (my first non-military rifle (ouch)) and I was wondering what sort of velocity deviation I should be getting on reasonably built handloads (hornandy 150gr with 60gr IMR4350) 20fps, 30, 50?

Also, for Benchrest, is plus or minus 0.2 gr for powder OK? I'm also getting some variance in bullet weight. Normal? Should I sort these?

I guess I'm asking for your definition of "good enough".

One day I won't be the new guy, but I'll still be learning.
Collins
 
Posts: 2327 | Location: The Sunny South! St. Augustine, FL | Registered: 29 May 2004Reply With Quote
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velocity variation can only be accurately determined with a chronograph. Such things as burn rate, load density, neck tension, etc will all play a role in the ES and SD.



Try to get below a 20fps ES, and for all but benchrest applications,..you will be more than satisfied. Try the slower powders compatable with that caliber/bullet combo to keep as much air space out of the load, use good dies, and take steps to make your case necks concentric (light turning or more) and the resulting consistency of neck tension will also help to keep that spread down. At least these are some of the things I do,..FWIW



If the bullets are varying by much more than .1-.3gr,.then I would sort them by weight.



.2gr of powder variance is beyond my range of acceptability. I shoot for no more than .1gr,..and most of the time,.I will take the time to get the loads exactly at the charge weight I want,..with NO variance. For out to say,..300yds or so,.that .2gr won't show up too much. Remember however,..that could be part of your velocity spread problem (inconsistent charge weights) Always calibrate the scale before loading,..and during loading to be certain of the charges.
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: behind the crosshairs | Registered: 01 August 2002Reply With Quote
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If you're not worried about a 3 degree F change in the temperature of your ammo, or a 1 degree F change in the temperature of your barrel, then don't worry about a .1 grain difference in load in a 30-06 class cartridge. They all produce roughly the same change in muzzle velocity.
 
Posts: 2281 | Location: Layton, UT USA | Registered: 09 February 2001Reply With Quote
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a tenth of a grain of powder................????? I doubt that the scales we use are that accurate. I think that extrapolates to 3 or less little logs of 4350.
Hey, that can be the next anal driven obsession of reloading: Forget weighing charges or using a measure. Count the little grains of powder. In your valley time, you can seperate the little logs (or grains) into seperate piles of uniformity. Maybe even measure the little logs and load by cumulated measure, ie, "I get my best accuracy with 3 inches of 4350." Wow!
 
Posts: 2037 | Location: frametown west virginia usa | Registered: 14 October 2001Reply With Quote
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a tenth of a grain of powder................????? I doubt that the scales we use are that accurate. I think that extrapolates to 3 or less little logs of 4350.
Hey, that can be the next anal driven obsession of reloading: Forget weighing charges or using a measure. Count the little grains of powder. In your valley time, you can seperate the little logs (or grains) into seperate piles of uniformity. Maybe even measure the little logs and load by cumulated measure, ie, "I get my best accuracy with 3 inches of 4350." Wow!




I'm pretty anal! I might take you up on that! I do have a nice Starret digital caliper that's (aledgedly) good to 1/10,000th let's talk about the radius of the crimp, and the brinnell harness of the brass (and copper (and barrel)) maybe turn our bullets on a CNC lathe, I'm ready, just say "Go"
 
Posts: 2327 | Location: The Sunny South! St. Augustine, FL | Registered: 29 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Some deviation is quite natural. None of our scales are 100% accurate. Bullets also vary a bit from one to another.
Temperature has a slight effect also. If you are new at this and taking your loads from a manual be careful to note the equipment used in determining the bullet speed. Generally the variance is about 50 fet per inch of barrel length. 26" and 28" barrels are common in testing, but you and I probably won't have barrels that long on our rifles so you have to make allowances for it. Also the powder you use will vary somewhat by lot. Some of these are not major items, but they will cause your velocities to vary somewhat. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
 
Posts: 1866 | Location: Montreal, Canada | Registered: 01 May 2003Reply With Quote
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a tenth of a grain of powder................????? I doubt that the scales we use are that accurate. ...






Hey beemanbeme, There you go "telling on yourself". If you had a Strain Gauge hooked to your Scale arm, you could detect things in the 0000000000.0000000001 grain range.



...



I've been giving serious consideration to developing a "New and VASTY Improved" Remote Strain Grain System(R-SGS) which measures the Stress stored within each individual Grain of Powder. It should be completely obvious to anyone who owns a chronograph, that there is an individual Inner-Granular Stress which varies from Grain-to-Grain of Powder due to manufacturing techniques.



The plan is to have the device work through a telephone. What will happen is a person desiring this "New and VASTY Improved" R-SGS service will send me $100. Then after I send them a Tracking Number, they will call me and pass their telephone over a jug of their Powder. The "New and VASTY Improved" R-SGS will then decide if the Stress-per-Grain falls within acceptable Standards. Of course the Standard Deviation will be Totally Precise with a 13 Sigma Base utilizing "S-$100" as the formula basis.



...



EDIT: Hey Collins, A lot of folks go to a HUGE amount of effort to get their Standard Deviations as low as possible. From a logic standpoint it seems to make sense that the closer to the same Velocity each bullet exits the muzzle, the more uniform the Load has to be and therefore the groups should be consistent in size.



Only problem is that in the real world, quite often the very most accurate Loads "don't always" have the smallest Standard Deviation.



If you have the ability to shoot 100-300yd groups while you are fretting over your chronograph, pick the Load that shows the "smallest spread" on the Target, not the chronograph.
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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'Tis true. I use a Ohaus 10-10 that has been in the family longer than my kids................it behaves better too.

Collins, I have posted before: some folks reload to shoot and some folks shoot to reload. Makes no difference which one peels your banana, its a very interesting hobby. I wouldn't take Hot Core up on his offer if I was you. I sent him $100 (Confederate funds, of course) and he still hasn't assigned me a number. He's slower than the Montana Rifle Co.
 
Posts: 2037 | Location: frametown west virginia usa | Registered: 14 October 2001Reply With Quote
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