The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading "always.......Never"Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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As a new reloader I encounter lots of conflicting advice. If I was getting advice on, say. how to plant tomatos, then following bad advive may be disappointing but not devastating. . But when it comes to stuffing highly flammable material into closed metal containers, bad advice is potentially deadly.Words like "always' and "never" really get my attention. Much reloading advice is often preceded by "never" or "always". Often this is in reguards to the exact same topic. Glen Zediker says always FL resize, Steves pages say neck only resize after FL resizing new brass. So how about something simple...Like how to set up your resizing dies. I will quote three 'Authorities" Speer reloading manual... "With the ram at the top of its stroke, turn the die until it touches the top of the shell holder,. Release the ram slightly and tighten the die one quarter turn more" Instructions included with my Forster die.. "with the(ram) at its highest point, screw the sizing die into the press until the bottom of the die contacts the top of the shell holder. tighten the locking ring". "Reloading for competition" by Glen Zediker.... "Instructions manufacturers provide...are best ignored." "...most say to run up the press ram and thread down the die until it contacts the shell holder."...Don't do that. Ever". He goes on to inply that advice to back off (raise) the die by a half turn or so may be not enough! Okay. So which is it? I think I understand the concept of headspace and the dangers of too much head space. With too much headspace the fired cartridge can bounce off its datum line contact point and piledrive back into the bolt face and weaken the brass near the head. Am I right about that? Of the three approaches, the Speer advice will lead to the most shoulder set back..the deeper the die sets in the press the more the shoulder is set back(correct?).... and thus the greater chance of excessive headspace. Am I right about that? Zidekers method will lead to the least shoulder set back(am I right about that?) and I guess risks insufficient headspace. The dangers of not enough head space are not as clear to me. You may not be able to close the bolt or you risk a slamfire. Am I right. Any other dangers. Sooooo... What should I do? | ||
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Look up partial full length resizing, i.e. setting your die to match your rifles headspace. I know my Nosler manual (IIRC, Sierra does too) illustrates is well. As for the rest of the advice you se eon the internet, well, read my signature and good luck! BTW, conservative, careful reloaders keep their fingers and eyes longer...  Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. | |||
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I understand your confusion! When reloading ammo for a strong, solid rifle type with "stiff" actions such as front-locking bolt actions or single shots like the Ruger No. 1, it is USUALLY NOT NECESSARY to full-length resize brass that has been fired in the same gun. I generally size only 1/3 to 1/2 of the case neck in such instances, (dep. on how long the case neck is) just enough to firmly grasp the bullet when it is seated. The less you work your brass, the more reloadings you will get out of it. In the case of "springy" actions like British SMLE's, one of our lever actions, OR a semi-auto, it may prove necessary to FL size the cases each time. The only way to know for sure is to partially resize them then test to see if the rifle chamber will accept them and allow the action to lock closed. If it doesn't, then size them a litle more, until they will re-enter the chamber and allow the gun to lock up; don't size them any more than this amount. Re-use of cases with maximum charges will sometimes result in the need for a complete FL resizing on occasion, even with a stiff action. But if this seems to be occurring frequently, it may be time to cut that powder charge a little! I agree that it is best NOT TO screw the die all the way in until it touches the shell holder; the reason for this is that if you do, you are failing to match your degree of resizing to the individual chamber of your rifle. There is no way a die manufacturer can cut the chamber in his dies to be a perfect match to any gun out there except by accident! It is possible to create excessive headspace by allowing your cases to enter the die too far, but most reloading dies aren't short enough in head-to-shoulder dimensions to make a DANGEROUS CHANGE in your headspace! (Excessive shoulder setback is more likely with a belted case, because rifle chambers for belted and rimmed rounds are often a little less precise than is the case with non-belted cartridge designs. Such overworking of brass can result in incipient casehead separations, due to the fact that the belted round will headspace off the belt regardless, causing shoulders to stretch forward, followed by being shoved back each time it is sized. But, the greatest potential problem with beltless cartridges is overworking the whole case when it is completely resized each time. "Reloading for competition" by Glen Zediker.... "Instructions manufacturers provide...are best ignored." "...most say to run up the press ram and thread down the die until it contacts the shell holder."...Don't do that. Ever". There may be a time when you will need to screw the die in until it touches the shellholder. But this should be pretty rare, only when it is absolutely unavoidable to do a complete FL job on a case-such as if the brass was fired in a different rifle, and a total FL sizing job is the only way you can get it to chamber in your rifle, OR you are loading hunting ammo for a semi-auto of some sort. IMO, you can't get in too much trouble following Steve R's guidance! He gets 1" groups at 200 yards with hunting rifles all the time! "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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In that case, I'd most likely ignore Mr. Zediker. Wallace, much of what you are conflicted about occurs because there is no context to the advice. None of it is right, none of it is wrong necessarily. As an example lever action guns typically benefit from full length sizing because they do not have the mechanical leverage that bolt actions have to force a zero tolerance case into battery. Thus one might FL size a 30-30 case, and not do the same for a .30-06 round intended for a Rem. 700. Likewise, a round loaded for a Win. Mod. 88(lever gun) is subject to the same fundamentals as a bolt gun due to its bolt face design. I know this doesn't clarify much in regards to your questions, but it is the best I can offer in a direct sense. Hang around the forums, ask questions and read the answers posted to yours and others questions. Try to be specific with your questions, like "I'm loading the .270 Winchester for a Rem. 700 BDL, and have a question about OAL." Far better than "What's a good starting point for OAL". A few definite 'Do's' in my opinion: Trim your brass as specified in the manual you are using. Find a time of day or night to reload that minimizes the likelyhood of your being disturbed or distracted. Avoid allowing mixed components on your load bench at the same time...particularly powder. If you can afford it, buy a chronograph. Before you reach for velocity, try building some accurate and consistantly good, reliable ammo. Follow the recipies. And a few don'ts: DO NOT exceed published data, for ANY reason. Do NOT interpolate burn rate charts to determine what is and isn't a good substitute powder. As you are just starting with this, DON'T build loads for friends...ANYTHING that happens will be your fault. Don't think you're going to discover anything new from a technical standpoint. It's been done already...and most likely discarded. If you run into a problem, think about it. Think about it again. Usually the answer will come to you, expert advice notwithstanding.  If yuro'e corseseyd and dsyelixc can you siltl raed oaky? | |||
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The only advice that I can give you is, spend the money and buy a lyman reloading manual. It will tell you exactly how to start reloading. After you have followed these dirictions and reloaded for some time, then it will be time to start experimenting. Do not fool around with advice that is not printed in the reloading manual until you have reloaded for some time and understand what the basics are. | |||
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Always FLRS. Speer info will work. Forster info will work. Glen Zedikers may or may not work. When putting your FL die in press, it should be square with the shell holder. So die must touch shell holder.If you want to play with head spacing when flrs, set up your die this way. Make a metal spacer .005"thick (soda can), put hole in center of shim (paper punch) for decapping pin. Run ram up, put shim on top of shell holder, screw down fl die till it makes contact, not hard. This will give u the max case for your chamber. If when using the shim, ammo is hard to chamber, u dont need the shim. For auto-loading rifles, i would not do this, u want to make sure your action is fully closed on an auto rifle. Some reloading presses spring (C type) when flrs, this is why die makers want you to turn die the extra 1/8 turn down after contact with the shell holder. | |||
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If you think about it, all of the factory die-setting instructions may be right - for that maker's die. I got antsy about headspace after a couple of "pressure events," and bought a nifty tool, the RCBS Precision Mic for each cartridge I reload. For headspace, it lets you set your die for your chamber pretty accurately; I set mine for 0.002," and I'm happy for testing off a bench. It improves accuracy, and because it only "bumps" the shoulder back a little, it works the brass less and allows it to live longer. Die makers' instructions want to ensure that your resized case will fit in the shortest chamber made for any given cartridge, so they move the shoulder back much more than 0.002." OTOH, sometimes they make mistakes, so the measurement by the Precision Mic is my check on them. (I have sent a die back to the maker - twice - to have a total of 0.006" taken off the bottom so the die will actually touch the shoulder of one of my fired cartridges, but that's rare. (They don't admit an error, BTW.) For hunting, far from your reloading tools, you could do worse than to follow the maker's instructions. At least the case will chamber when you need it to. Jaywalker | |||
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Lots of great comments. thanks | |||
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Depending on your chamber dimensions;long chamber better use Partial full sizing,not working the shoulder(no back up the shoulder),case-head to the datum line on the shoulder case will remain the same or "longer" than your fireformed brass.Standard chamber? I use PFLR(partial full sizing backing the shoulde 001-003"?(fireformed brass will vary and cases size will"springback".(as for myself PFLR sizing is near when the ie makes contact with shell holder).Partial sizing there is a gap between shell holder and die.Small chamber I cannot tell.Buy yourself the Head and shoulder cartridge headspace gauge(Stoney Point).RCBS says adjust die when it makes contact with the shell holder,then srew die i/4"turn more,Lee the same thing.Forster and Hornady adjust die when it touches shell holder(confusing?),cannot substitute the shell holder not the same height.I cannot adjust die 1/4" past shell holder the cases are too much sized,too much headspace but it is my rifle with particular dimensions...Hotcore and Woods are fine members to help how to set up dies correctly... | |||
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Wallace, Always and never are just ways of starting a sentance. There are quite a few ways of makeing safe good reloads, the difference is mostly personal "tweeking". My advice is to follow all advice and then do it your way.  John L. | |||
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Wallace Gaye- I guess we've all had the same problem--conflicting authorities--so I suggest lots of time reading and researching. Here are some sites that have benefitted me: Steve Wagner's site You could do worse that spending a week's worth of evenings there. He's got some pretty good explanations of both the philosophy and tools of reloading, and most accompanied by illustrations. And... basic Mauser gunsmithing info, if it's something you're interested in. This Sierra site is first rate Exterior Ballistics No need to worry yourself with the ballistics issues; best left to the engineers, if you're a beginner. Still, there are sweet discussions of all the steps of basic reloading. Finally, here's an old AR thread: Hot Core on Partial Full Length Resizing Hope this helps, flaco Also, Jaywaylker's advice on the RCBS Precision Micrometer is right on. | |||
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Wallace Gaye: I think the first thing you need to find out would be, is the advice pointed toward a general audience. Or is it is it pointed toward a specific group of reloaders. Steve's pages (for rifle reloading)are more general in nature , but seem to be aimed more toward bolt actions and accuracy loading for them. Reloading instructions from powder/bullet/die manufactures etc are designed to insure that every load made following their info will be "safe", and will function in ANY rifle that is safe to shoot. there is little concern for accuracy or brass life. Glen Z has a tough style to read (for me anyway). You must rember that his book Reloading for Competition is aimed at the NRA high power rifle competition game, and assumes more than general reloading knowldge and experence. The info is pointed toward semi-auto rifles(guys firing bolt guns in this competition usually follow the same techniques to insure absolute feeding reliability) Semi autos don't have much if any caming power. That means setting the shoulder back on every round. It also means using small based dies if needed. This is to insure each and every round will "fall" into the chamber completly. Thereby preventing out of battery discharges(or bolt hang ups). The flip side is you need to avoid setting the shoulder back too far. About .002" to .003" back from fired brass measurement is commonly used(use an RCBS case mic already mentioned). If you set back per die manufacturer instructions which takes the case to a factory like -.002"measurement(truely full length resizing). And your rifle has a generous length chamber, say +.006" and you reload two or more times you will be streching your cases with each firing/reloading cycle and flirting with head seperations. So for Zediker's advice you need to know and understand how and why you are doing each reloading task. Maybe a good decription of his technique could be "custom full length resizing". My point is that for different purposes and different levels of experence there are many proper techniques for setting up reloading dies,and most other aspects of this hobby. I hope I was able to explain myself,and point of view. muck | |||
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Kind words indeed, thanks rejpelly, we have been through this a time or two. rejpelly and I recommend the Stoney Point Head and Shoulders Gauge and the Stoney Point Comparators while Hot Core likes the old ways and doesn't like modern technology.  His method works too, which is to size the case a little at a time while chambering the case to search for the exact setting where a hard crush fit lessens to a slight crush fit. However, with the Head and Shoulders Gauge you can keep track of when and how far you are pushing the shoulder back and go for Partial Full Length Resizing of .001" to .003" headspace. You will be amazed how useful this tool is. For example it will tell you that virgin brass often has headspace of .01" to .015"!  In other words you should set your dies to fit your rifle chamber by either method and use the Die manufacturers suggestion as general information, not scripture. ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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Hey Woods, Is that company STILL ripping folks heads off with those un-necessary tools?  Thank you rejpelly for the kind words. --- Hey Wallace, Confused? Easy to get that way when you are starting out Reloading and there is a good reason for it - Reloading can be done SAFELY in different ways. The really bad part is it can also be done where something you are doing can mislead you into thinking you are SAFE when you may not be. That gets you to where you are right now, confused because of the different inputs that could all be correct, but slightly different. --- I just looked through the guys that responded and you have had an extremely experienced group of Reloaders respond. And DD's comment about trying to get the questions "very specific" makes it easier for you to get good answers. Asking one question at a time(unless they are closely related) will help hold the confusion down for you too. Just create another Thread for the next question. But, let's see if we can sort through some of this. --- Sometimes it is indeed appropriate to use "always and never". But, you are correct to watch for the context in which they are being used. If you hunt in Dangerous Game country, if you are reloading for a semi-auto or if you are reloading for a pump, if any of those three are yes, then FL Resizing is indeed always the best method. Your case life will be shorter than the other methods, but you reduce the possibility of having a cartridge jam in the chamber on a piece of Sand or Pine Needle when you need it to function at it's very best.And when you look at some of the groups Steve has made with that method, it is indeed difficult to argue with. His method works great for a lot of folks and obviously Steve. I prefer Partial-Full Length Resizing(P-FLR) because it gives long case life, the only dangerous Game I'm around would be Hogs and an occasional Black bear, and for me it gives better accuracy than Neck Sizing. See "Flaco's Link" - Thanks Flaco! The really neat thing about all of this is that you can try each method for yourself and see which one you like the best. Each method works and they each have pluses and minuses(which could be a Thread in itself). They also should have mentioned you should use "their Shell Holder" when setting up the Dies. Here the difference in the directions can be as simple as a dimensional difference between the height of their respective Shell Holders or the actual Length of the Resizing Die. Either dimension(or both) can set up a situation so the cases are either: 1. Over resized. 2. Full Length Resized(FLR). 3. Partial-Full Length Resized(P-FLR). 4. Partial-Neck Sized(P-NS). 5. Not Resized enough. Yes, more confusion. He probably meant NEVER do that, to stay in line with your confusion.Actually, it depends on the type "Resizing" that you are trying to accomplish; FLR, P-FLR, or P-NS when using a Full Length Resizer. And he should have mentioned that somewhere. Almost. Actually "close enough" so as not to add to the confusion.
Just ask clear concise questions at AR when you get conflicting input. One really nice thing about AR is most of the experienced Reloaders (above) will jump right in to help you. And if anyone offers bogus info, they will also let you know that and "Why" it is bogus. | |||
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I a good many Bolt rifles Zidekers Methods would result in loads that will not chamber. It's probably very wise just to use his methods as well as the mfr's methods as a starting point for one particular firearm. Hotcore's idea of sizing alittle at a time until you reach a size that will just chamber is probably the best way to preserve your brass life if you insist on FLRing. Document that exact placement of the die (If you intend to load for more than one rifle w/ that die) and you should be set for the life of that rifle. A little common sense and lots of questions will go a long ways in the reloading world. Good Luck Reloader | |||
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Quote: I a good many Bolt rifles Zidekers Methods would result in loads that will not chamber. Reloader I seam to need some education. I do not understand how reloads made using techinques recomended by Glen Zediker can fail to chamber in a bolt rifle. Thank you for your time. Sincerely muck | |||
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In case Reloader hads gone hunting and I need typeing practise, heres my thought on it. I've never heard of this bloke, but from the original quote I got the impression he was using Hotcore's method but didn't explain the trial and checks to get it right. And then Reloader may have meant, as I read it, that that setting gained may not fit in another rifle. John L> | |||
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Zidekers method is nothing new. You start with the die turned out. If the cases don't go in the chamber, you screw the die in a little till case fits chamber.The problem is, this will work first time or 2, then case wont go in again , then u turn die down a little more till round will chamber.Not good for accuracy as brass is sized different each time till u find the correct setting. This is why i say start with a shim of .005" between shell holder and fl die(bolt action rifle). The only exception where this will not work is using a set up loading 7mm TCU(some dies) where the fl sizing die never touches the shell holder for correct headspace. Even when u think u have the correct setting,u still may have to screw in fl die a little more as brass work hardens and has less spring back. And if your a person that ALWAYS NECK SIZES all the time, you will find that soon or later the brass will no long fit the chamber, then u must full length resize. | |||
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Muck, From the above quote it says that Zediker advises to screw the Die in until it touches the shell holder and then screw it out 1/2 a turn or more. W/ that method, not all rifles will chamber the ammo. Some Rifles need the shoulder bumped back alittle on rounds that have been fired multiple times and Partial FLRing does not allow for proper shoulder placement which, results in a stiff bolt close if any at all. Maybe it was a Misquote, I've never read Zedikers stuff but, from what I read in the intial post on this thread, I'd not place much in his thoughts at all especially after he said to throw out all MFRs instructions. Reloader | |||
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As I understand and practice partial FL resizing, it always bumps the shoulder back to a consistent point so that there is a small bit of resistance as the bolt closing is completed. No worries about shoulder moving forward and making the ammo not fit, you always bump it back. The only issue is that every rifle requires a different die setting, so if you reload multiple calibers you have to reset the dies every time. Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. | |||
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If you are going to quote, you need to get the whole sentence. Partial FLRing does NOT always bump the shoulder back unless you have the die adjusted in the proper amount. What I said was after brass has been fired multiple times, many times it will not even chamber in the same rifle it was fired in, I've seen this happen many times. Those brass need the shoulder bumped back and you cant bump the shoulder back w/ Partial FLRing unless you have the die screwed in far enough to push the shoulder back and then, you are FLRing not partial. Have a Good One Reloader | |||
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Okay okay, semantics. IMO by definition PFL resizing ALWAYS bumps the shoulder. If you aren't bumping the shoulder, you're neck sizing with a FL die, and that adds other problems...like squeezing the body enough to push the shoulder farther forward. The main differnece between PFL resizing and true FL resizing as I define it is how far the shoulder is bumped back. PFL bumps enough to chamber in only the original firing rifle, LF goes far enough to allow chambering in (virtually) any rifle (of the appropriate caliber, of course). Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. | |||
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Can't understand how Wallace managed to get confused. Here we go for the vast majority of Die Sets. This does not include the Lee Swaging/Crimping Die Sets which are unique unto themselves: Full Length Resizing (FLR) 1. Reforms a Case to fit within any Chamber that meets SAAMI Specifications. 2. It has some unknown amount of Headspace. 3. The CenterLine of the Case and the CenterLine of the chamber are not in alignment. 4. You set the FL Die by screwing it in until it touches the Shell Holder on a raised Ram, lower the Ram, screw the FL Die in an additional 1/4 turn and set the FL Die Lock Ring. 5. You have short Case Life due to Incipient Case Head Separations. 6. Accuracy is generally acceptable to fine. 7. You only need a Full Length Resizing Die Set. 8. Intended for use in Dangerous Game Rifles, semi-autos, pumps and most single shots. 9. You must Lube the cases and then remove it. 10. No need to ever Re-adjust the Fl Die Setting. Partial-Full Length Resizing (P-FLR) 1. Custom fits a Case to a specific Chamber. 2. It has a slight "crush fit" to eliminate all Headspace. 3. The CenterLine of the Case and the CenterLine of the Chamber are forced to be in perfect alignment. 4. You set the FL Die by screwing it in until it is about the thickness of a Nickle above the Shell Holder on a raised Ram. You Lube and Resize a Case, remove the Lube and try it in the Chamber. Lower the FL Die 1/8th turn or so and repeat the process. You might reach a point where you CAN NOT close the Bolt or where it is very difficult to close. Screw the FL Die in 1/16th turn and repeat until the Bolt closes with "snug" resistance. If you go too far, back the FL Die up 1/8th turn and try again on a different Case. 5. You have the longest possible Case Life due to Zero Headspace. 6. Accuracy is generally fine to excellent. 7. You only need a Full Length Resizing Die Set. 8. Intended for use in Bolt Action Rifles and some single shots. 9. You must Lube the cases and then remove it. 10. You may need to Fine Tune the FL Die adjustment the first couple of Reloads. Partial-Neck Sizing (with a FL Die) (P-NS w/FL) 1. May or may not reform part of the Case Body depending on the FL Die and Chamber dimensions and is best to use it in only one specific Chamber. 2. It has some unknown amount of Headspace which varies with each shot until the Bolt will no longer close. 3. The CenterLine of the Case and the CenterLine of the chamber are not in alignment but get closer with each shot until the Bolt will no longer close. 4. You set the FL Die by screwing it in until it Resizes approximately 1/2 of the Case Neck or less. 5. You have shorter Case Life than P-FLR, but longer than FLR. 6. Accuracy is generally fine to very good. 7. You only need a Full Length Resizing Die Set. 8. Intended for use in Bolt Action Rifles. 9. You may or may not need to Lube the cases and then remove it. 10. You may need to Fine Tune the FL Die adjustment the first couple of Reloads. Neck Sizing (NS) 1. Only reforms the Case Neck and is best to use it in only one specific Chamber. 2. It has some unknown amount of Headspace which varies with each shot until the Bolt will no longer close. 3. The CenterLine of the Case and the CenterLine of the chamber are not in alignment but get closer with each shot until the Bolt will no longer close. 4. You set the Neck Sizing Die by screwing it in until it Resizes any amount of the Case Neck you desire. 5. You have shorter Case Life than P-FLR, but longer than FLR. 6. Accuracy is generally fine and gets better with each shot "until" the Case Shoulder needs to be "Bumped Back" slightly. 7. You need both a Neck Sizing Die and will eventually need a Full Length Resizing Die. 8. Intended for use in Bolt Action Rifles. 9. No need to Lube the cases. 10. No need to ever Re-adjust the NS Die Setting. --- OK guys, what did I miss? | |||
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Hey HC Almost! You are right on on FLR Also on PFLR, which I use when the neck sized cases get hard to chamber, I set the shoulder back exactly .002" with the very excellent Stoney Point Head & Shoulders Gauge  BTW this is where we differ from Reloader in that he says
PFLR is not reached until the shoulder is pushed back a very small amount. Where we differ is on neck sizing, where I have found that the case shoulder stays at the same measurement with the Stoney Point Head & Shouders Gauge (SPH&SG)  until about the 4th or 5th firing where it starts easing up .0005" or so and the shoulder needs to be set back.Another way of putting it is to say that with PFLR you are setting the shoulder back between .001" to .003". Hard to set the die to get much more precise than that. With neck sizing the case shoulder stays at the same point for a few firings only varying by as little as .0005". So, IMHO, neck sizing is more exact than PFLR and the headspace has less variance than PFLR (.001" to .003" as opposed to .0005"). These are measurements I have made with the SPH&SG, as closely as possible and with very few anomalies. That's my story and I'm sticking to it until convinced otherwise  ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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Reloader: Thanks for your reply. You have cleared up my confusion. As I understand you, Zedikers directions could lead to difficult to impossible chambering cartridges when followed as general directions for reloading for more than one firearm chambered for the same cartridge. My posting was made with having read most of Zedikers book. The book was not written as general reloading advice. His techniques are written for reloading for one rifle and how to get the most from your rounds. Both in accuracy and longevity of the brass and rifle. muck | |||
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, IMHO, neck sizing is more exact than PFLR and the headspace has less variance than PFLR (.001" to .003" as opposed to .0005"). These are measurements I have made with the SPH&SG, as closely as possible and with very few anomalies. [QUOTE] I cannot argue with that  I have to test some more reloads about using full sizer die (partial sizing), I want to to find out when a case is gone for accurcy... | |||
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If you bring the shell holder up to bump the die all that happens is your case is the same length as a new one. Not to worry if you are begining to reload. Once you out grow commercial loads (or think you have) you can play with partial sizing ect to improve accuracy. Good Luck! | |||
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Hey Woods, A whole lot of folks will agree with you on that. In fact, I'd strongly encourage anyone to Neck Size " if " they are shooting against me to see who buys the BBQ supper. | |||
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CDH, Ok, I see where your coming from. I'm sure it just differs in how you learned the process. I've always thought of PFLRing as HCs defintion for Partial Neck sizing w/ a FL die. I've always considered touching the shoulder as FLRing because after all it does change the length. On another note, I've been having pretty good luck using the Redding Body dies for FLRing and then using a Neck die. Seems to produce more concentric loads. I think I'd be fine w/ regular Full length dies but the Expander Balls just seem to pull thing out of line sometimes. I do however like how the Forester Expander ball is set up on their Benchrest dies, they definitely have less resistance when the ball passes through vs the Rcbs and Lee's. I have thought about turning the Exander balls down but, If you don't get them perfectly turned then you'll be out of line again. Also tried the method of sizing w/o the Ex Ball but, didn't like the grossly under sized necks and the bullets bulged the necks while seating. Have a Good One Reloader | |||
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RL'er, this is how I get around the 'pulling the neck out of line' problem, and put an otherwise useless piece of reloading equipment (in my experience) to use... Remove the decapper/expander assembly from your FL die. Size cases as per your preferred method. I happened to have a Hornady neck sizing die that produced the crookedest ammo I've ever done...so it was useless to me. I took it and set it so that it didn't do any sizing, them ran the decapper/expander ball down enough to de-prime. Now I am pushing the expander ball through, not pulling it. Lube seems to work better, and the nice smooth tapered Hornady ball is pretty nice. It adds a step, but I get good results with it. YMMV! Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. | |||
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CDH, You are right about the Hdy Exp Ball it does definitely have a better shape and seems to give less resistance. I have one set of the Hdys and noticed the nice shape of the ball right off. If only RCBS and Lee could tweak that part of their design. Forester's Exp. Ball is well designed too IMO and I like how it is further in the die close to the shoulder area. Have a Good One Reloader | |||
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| one of us |
I know they're somewhat pricey, but this thread really shows what a great idea the Redding Competition Shellholder sets are- you get the benefits of both of both FL and PFL. Add a body/collet 2-die set up and you get the best of neck, FL and PFL sizing! | |||
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one of us |
In other words you should set your dies to fit your rifle chamber by either method and use the Die manufacturers suggestion as general information, not scripture.[/QUOTE] That's the way to do it. Load for YOUR firearm. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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