I reloaded my first shells tonight, a couple of questions. I was reloading 405 grain cast bullets with 25 grains H4198 (2 below minimum, but book said I could go even lower). I fired my first one at a milk jug, results were fine, I'm guessing around 1200 fps. When I took the case back inside, I noticed it seems like one side stretched, so the neck of the brass is a little bit cock-eyed. What could have caused this? I noticed the case was a bit harder to load than normal, but it didn't look like the bullets got crimped at all really. When cycling the gun with a dummy round, it fell and when it hit the ground the bullet got pushed into the case, so not much crimping going on.

Thanks for replies, and is there anyways I could go sub-sonic with the 405 grainer and H4198, and if I needed a filler, what could I use?

Tyler

You didn't say what cartridge but can I assume 45-70?

I can't say what your case neck problem might be without looking at the case and maybe making some measurements.

As to your load, can I recommend that you try a slower burning powder? Even for the weakest of actions there are some very good loads with powders in the 3031 and 4895 burning range and they will fill the case enough so that you don't have to worry about a filler. I have never liked using fast powders in that big case. Too many things that can go wrong.

As to sub sonic, you're almost there now. I'm not sure what your goal is but you won't silence a 45-70. The bullet may not "crack' but you'll still have the noise of the powder burning and the gasses escaping the barrel.

But anyway, I have used loads with H4831 that gave very low velocities. But they are messy since a lot of powder is left unburned.

Always be careful with low velocity loads. Bullets can and do sometimes stick in a barrel.

Ray

Yes, 45-70, meant to put that in there. Mostly I want to get rid of the crack, I work at a shotgun range with lots of small shootable critters when no one is there. I have noticed when I pull sporting clays, squirrels and rabbits run when a fast load is shot, but with sub-sonic loads these animals stick around longer. I was thinking maybe the crack is something they don't like for some reason? I'm shooting a Marlin 1895, so action strength isn't an issue, I was just hoping for small amounts of powder saving me money.

As for measuring the case, what dimensions do you need?

The reloading book I have says depending on the speed of the powder I can go up to 50% below the minimum, and since 4198 is pretty quick, I figured I could probably go 25% below minimum with no issues. I've heard of toilet paper as a filler, seems pretty painless, if 27 grains is a minimum, could I go to 20 grains with no issues if I used toilet paper to keep the powder against the primer? I don't want to tread in dangerous territory, just looking to save some money on powder and have a quit(er) load for small game. My manager at the shotgun range has a chronograph, so I'm going to find out the speed of my loads tonight.

Also, I saw some 144 grain collar button bullets online, what kind of load data is there on them?

EDIT:
http://www.westernbullet.com/cbip/b457130.html
Nevermind, there is data on the site. They look interesting.

Tyler

The "toilet paper" trick is one that is used when fire-forming a case with a fast burning powder and no bullet. I suppose it could be used to fill the remainder of the case in a bulleted load but there are other things that work better. But, again, it's my opinion that small charges of fast powder in a big case like the 45-70 is not the best way to go. So, I cannot give any advice on how to put together such loads. I'm sure there are others here who do this all the time and I'd best defer to their recommendations.

Ray

One last question, the only powder I have reloaded with and have with me is H4198. Under loads that don't exceed 28,000 CUP there is data for the 415 Cast bullet with H4198, 41 grains for 1784 fps. Could I safely use this data for a 405 grain cast bullet? Also, how many grains could I use over 41 since this only takes it up to 28,000 CUP?

I just got the toilet paper trick from the Lee reloading manual, it says it works better than foam, and is cheaper than other stuff.

Tyler

What you evidently have is a load table for the weaker 45-70 actions. (under 28000 PSI) That is, things like the Trapdoors, Sharps, etc. You need a manual that gives loads for the 3 or 4 different action strengths. The Hornady manual does that very well and the Sierra does to a lesser extent.

The old HANDLOADER magazine covered loads for the 45-70 better than anything I have seen. I can xerox the articles and send them to you. I don't have a scanner.

Are you still at the Auxvasse address? I'll get it off to you today.

Ray

Yes, and if you would that would be excellent. These loads are from a magazine article someone posted, and on the higher pressure loads, H4198 is not shown with this bullet, so I was just wondering. I have several books that have different pressure level loads, all have the 405 grain lead with H4198 at low pressure, but then the next pressre level, this powder is left out.

Tyler

It's in the mail to you as we speak. Lots of good info in it.

I don't shoot the 45-70 much anymore but when I did I found that a very good all-around powder was 3031. Read the article and judge for yourself.

I said that I didn't like small charges of fast powders in that big case. What I did for squib loads was to cut a case off to about 1 1/4" length and then use 45 Colt load data. If I remember right, I was able to use 45 Colt loading dies to resize and crimp.

Good Luck

Ray

I'm another IMR-3031 advocate for the .45-70. It works great, lasts a long time, and all that. 4198 works okay too. See a Lyman Reloading Handbook for a batch of "recipes".

I see some 4198 loads with 400 grain bullets at just below 2000 fps, with only 48 grains of powder. Pressure is only 31.6 CUP with maximum loads, would 50 grains be too much if I worked up VERY carefully? I have seen from very mild to very hot loasd with 4198, I'm going to have to experiment with it till I get another powder.