The quantity of powder, primers, and reloaded ammo has crept up over the last few years. I reload 5 different pistol rounds and 3 rifle rounds. Keep probably 20-25 lbs of powder, 8-10k primers, and starting to count my reloads in pounds instead of number of rounds.

I'm now at the point where I really worry about what would happen with a fire.

I'm moving all the powder, primers and the bulk of my ammo into a storage building about 100 ft from our house that houses two tractors and assorted hand-tools. Our security system extends to this building and have a smoke detector in this building. Problem is we live rural with a volunteer fire department. They are devoted and first rate and very professional but the time and distance to respond worried me with all this stuff in our house. At best probably 15 minutes if I don't get the fire out myself. I have Multiple 20 lb ABC fire-extinguishers. As a former paramedic who has had on two occasions had to enter a burning house and apartment complex I'm sensitive to safety of fire fighters and paramedics.

To the question. I've put this stuff in front of a window. The fire department could easily break the upper pane of this double hung window with a blast from their inch and a half, then put the nozzle on fog suppressing all but the biggest fire. I'm not sure whether to tell them, warn them or not how to go about putting out a fire in this building and not to vigorously attack a fire that is out of control. Some might just stand back saying let her burn when they could easily put out a small fire.

Another possibility would be an over-reaction by law enforcement with 20-25 lbs of gunpowder on my powder shelf. Reloading rifle rounds at 40-50 grs per round this is really not that much but I don't want a raid by Federal or local agents when I have no intentions of bomb making. This is quite the moral dilemma for me. What have other reloaders done?

I keep my powder and primers in an old refrigerator. It has the advantage of insulation and humidity control (although I certainly don't have to deal with the amount of humidity that you may have).
I also don't think 25lb of powder is a problem. If it catches on fire, it will burn up before you can do anything anyway and smokeless just burns, it does not flash off the way blackpowder does.
When the primers cook off that may give some pause to your firemen but if they are familiar with reloading, they will know that they do not present a danger.
If I were you, I would get to know a few of the volunteers and if they seem like reasonable folks, tell them what you have and ask for their input. If they are rabid anti's I wouldn't tell them but I'm betting in rural NC they will be pretty familiar with guns and reloading.

1. The petroleum fuel in and around your machinery presents a greater fire hazard than the smokeless powder and primers.

2. If you told someone in a volunteer fire department about your very modest stock of powder and primers, what good thing do you see coming from that? At best the volunteer firemen would likely have no concept of the volatility/combustability of powder and primers and would therefore have no notion of how they might react to a fire in your shed differently to any other fire. At worst they would assume it to be equal to dynamite and would refuse to approach closely enough to actually control the fire. Besides, if it is a serious fire all of the powder will be burned long before the VFD gets there.

3. Why move your supply to a place where it is less secure, more subject to temperature and humidity degradation, and adds to the already significant fuel load? Keeping it in the house is a better location. Placing it in a window where it is subject to the alternating heat of direct sunlight and nighttime chill is a very poor idea.

4. Twenty-five pounds of powder is not a very large stock for many handloaders. On the other hand, ten pounds is enough for a miscreant to use to make a fairly potent bomb (particularly with the addition of other chemicals). If you are given to making rash statements of extreme political nature, associating with anarchist groups, and have a criminal record, then someone in the law enforcement community might raise an eyebrow at your acquisition and storage of some quantity of powder. Likewise, if you have been involved with drugs, law enforcement might be suspicious of your storage of a large quantity of anhydrous ammonia -- but not having a drug history and operating a corn farm, there is little likelihood of being inconvenienced by an investigation. Bottom line: If you're paranoid enough to worry about being suspected of criminal activity, then simply reducing your powder supply by one-half would do nothing to assuage that paranoia.

I go along with the refrigerator. Put a chain and lock around it and leave enough slack to where the door can open 2-3" and you're good to go. I keep my bulk powders like that in an out building and have a few 1# cans of the stuff I use a lot in the house.
I don't tell the fire dept about the can of gasoline nor the paint thinner, etc so I see no point in telling them about any reloading supplies that I have.
One point of paranoia, suppose the wrong set of ears gets the info. "Oh, he reloads ergo he must have guns, probably more than one, so...."

If my house is on fire the least of my worries is my powder

The national fire codes require that no more than 50 pounds of smokeless powder be stored in a residence. You can store limited amounts without any precautions but over that amount and up to 50 pounds must be stored in a magazine that will withstand a fire for 30 minutes. (1" of hardwood walls, bottom and top are the recommended minimum) I built a box of 3/4" plywood with 1/2" drywall inside and out and the recommended loose fitting lid to hold my 48 pounds of powder. This box is about twice the protection that is recommended and as I see it there is no need to tell anyone that it is there. You don't need to tell your insurance company or your fire department. Mine is kept in my reloading area of my shop - heated and cooled - to prevent temp and humidity swings. Heat above 120F is considered very bad when storing powder as it will quickly degrade the powder making it useless.

Then I'm a law breaker....oh well

In a wooden cabinet that is actually the bottom part of a 1940's home built gun cabinet, that happens to be one of the end tables in my living room.

Forgot to add in case any were wondering, no I am not married!!!!

quote:

Another possibility would be an over-reaction by law enforcement with 20-25 lbs of gunpowder on my powder shelf. Reloading rifle rounds at 40-50 grs per round this is really not that much but I don't want a raid by Federal or local agents when I have no intentions of bomb making. This is quite the moral dilemma for me.

There's an old saying..."don't borrow trouble until you need to."

friar

1. In a cool dark dry place.
2. No.

Moral dilemma ? Get over it.

We just told the neighbors that if they saw smoke.....Run!

quote:

Originally posted by deltam:
.....

To the question. ..... I'm not sure whether to tell them, warn them or not how to go about putting out a fire in this building .....

deltam, Call the fire dept and have them come out and inspect your out building.

I wouldn't tell my local law or fire dept any of my business

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I wouldn't tell my local law or fire dept any of my business

+1. Anyone doing so would be a fool. Do you want to take a chance on shit like this http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013...ffed-over-epa-raids/ in your life? Don't tell me "that will never happen here." It just did in Alaska.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I wouldn't tell my local law or fire dept any of my business

Right because they will put your information in a computer and it will stay there forever.

No.....it's just none of their business

May I ask one question ?
Are you a white male?
If the answer to the question is yes, you are a fool if you tell anyone other than your closest, lifelong friend(s).

Get an old chest freezer with a key lock and use that.

Here is the NFPA rule Paul is talking about:

quote:

11-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities
not exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in original
containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg), but not
exceeding 50 lb. (22.7 kg), shall be permitted to be stored in residences
where kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least
1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
Get an old chest freezer with a key lock and use that.

Here is the NFPA rule Paul is talking about:

quote:

11-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities
not exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in original
containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg), but not
exceeding 50 lb. (22.7 kg), shall be permitted to be stored in residences
where kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least
1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness.

So what are the penalties for violating the rules?

Each state, and some cities, impose their own penalties since some of this fits under OSHA, but here is a sample from Californication, I believe:

quote:

1.16.010 Enforcement – Misdemeanors.

(a) Subject to subsection (d) of this section, every act prohibited or declared unlawful and every failure to perform an act required by this code is a misdemeanor, except in cases in which the act or failure to perform an act is expressly stated to be an infraction; provided, that the city attorney may elect to prosecute any misdemeanor as an infraction.

(b) A misdemeanor is punishable by a fine of no more than $1,000 or by imprisonment for no longer than six months, or by both such fine and imprisonment, unless this code otherwise specially provides.

(c) Any person causing or permitting a violation of this code shall be regarded as committing a separate offense on each day that the violation occurs or continues.

(d) Violations of provisions of this code regulating and prohibiting the standing and parking of motor vehicles shall be treated and processed pursuant to California Vehicle Code Section 40200 et seq. [Ord. 08-006 § 8, 2008; Ord. 1961 N.S. § 3, 1994; Ord. 1902 N.S. § 1, 1993; Ord. 1673 N.S. § 1, 1989; Ord. 1548 N.S., 1986; Ord. 833 N.S. § 1, 1975; Ord. 444 N.S. § 7, 1963].

1.16.011 Enforcement – Infraction.

(a) An infraction is punishable by:

(1) A fine not exceeding $100.00 for the first violation;

(2) A fine not exceeding $200.00 for a second violation of the same ordinance within one year;

(3) A fine not exceeding $500.00 for each additional violation of the same ordinance within one year.

(b) Any person causing or permitting a violation of this code shall be regarded as committing a separate offense on each day that the violation occurs or continues. [Ord. 08-006 § 5, 2008].

Many states are actually more harsh than CA. This one deals with the tranportation portion of the rule as well as possession. But as Ted said, it is no one's business. I found no penalties for the city I live in. Have not checked the state.

I appreciate the responses.

A couple of points: To call my accessory building a shed is probably a bit of an understatement. It is 50x55, vinyl siding with doors that stay closed, with windows with shutters. Birds trying to build nests in there is a big hassle. Birds can build a nest in less than a day. My wife wouldn't accept a typical farm shed that close to our house. It isn't finished but does have good ventilation and trees on the West side. I have a piece of cardboard blocking light extending 3/4 of the way up the window keeping all powder shaded. It is already only getting to the low 80s outside this time of year. I keep a thermometer on the wall and have never seen the temperature over 100 degrees. The doors have pressure switches and there are motion sensors inside. We don't live in an area noted for crime but I still take every precaution as if we were in such an area.

All this said, I like the idea of a "magazine" of sorts. This would be something I could build and insulate using methods common to the construction industry, say a 4'x5' box with a hinged door. Condos in NC now have to have a two hour fire wall between units and I could follow the building code requirements. The best place to keep my powder supply cool would be in an area of our basement that already is enclosed by masonry and dirt fill on three sides. NC has high ambient humidity in summers and sometimes a cool basement causes condensation. This could be a problem.

How do the de-humidifiers in gun safes work? I could put one in my "magazine". Looks like the condensed water would have to drain or go somewhere. I suppose as an alternative to the gun save de-humidifiers I could put up a door to this space and a dehumidifier from Lowe's or Home Depot that sits on the floor but a condensate drain would involve a bit more work. I'd have to sit it up high enough to gravity drain to our A/C unit that has a condensate pump to carry water outside.

If I interpret responses correctly the plastic jugs powder comes in would not be a confined enough space to cause an explosion, only fast burning. A security system is in our basement as well. My guess is a crook would be trying to snatch and grab something pawn-able from our main floor. LE would probably be here in 15-20 minutes or so (I hope).

My gun safe is in heat & A/C space so I don't keep a de-humidifier in it.

Based on what is said here, I'll work on my basement and keep quiet. If fire gets to this area, the house will be a total loss and any additional fire wouldn't matter.

Guess I'll have to reload some more to get my powder supply down

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Killartist:
May I ask one question ?
Are you a white male?
If the answer to the question is yes, you are a fool if you tell anyone other than your closest, lifelong friend(s).

And, if I'm a black female?!!!!!

Then I,m guessing by the pic under your name you might be a lesbian?...

Graybird, Really ?
If you are a white male w/ guns, primers and 50 lbs of gunpowder, some bureaucrat is going to claim you are a domestic terrorist.
If you are a black lesbian, you will be elected to office soon.

Graybird is a lesbian trapped in a stubby white man's body.....can't say that he has any African blood in him though

quote:

Originally posted by Jim@IMReps:
I concur, don't share any info with the authorities, just asking for trouble in already precarious times.

I just had an encounter with UPS concerning changing the receiving date of a package. Naturally, nobody wants to talk to you. They referred me to UPS "My Choice" page on their website. I WAS SHOCKED WHEN I WENT TO SIGN UP. UPS, by way of computer mining, was able to pull up my house, other houses I lived in, my car, other cars I've owned, my marriage info, my birthday, anything that is considered in the public domain. Probably know I have a CCW permit if they had a need.

In the past, a lawyer, or knowledgeable type would have to actually go to the courthouse or register of deeds and look up this information. Now it only takes a mouse click by one of 10,000 UPS employees.

I've aged into Medicare and have already had problems with doctors offices. No one does a history and physical anymore. The want to perform them by a nursing assistant using mouse clicks in little boxes to so bureaucrat's standard. If something gets clicked wrong, it takes forever to get it squared away. Medicare is now practicing medicine by way of payment. They have their list of preferred meds and if the doctor wants to prescribe something off-label (meaning not FDA approved) forget it. No drug company is going to go to the expense of testing a drug that is no longer covered by patent.

I'm getting a bit off topic, but just ran up against UPS and feel violated.

quote:

Where do you keep powder and do you tell local Fire Departments?

I keep it in a cabinet in the basement where the temp is low 70s year around.....and it's none of anyone's business where it is.....

But it's all smokeless powder....black powder has specific rules about storage....and I'm not well versed about that stuff as I never have more than one pound on hand at a time.

A metal 2 drawer filing cabinet in my reloading room. It sits on a painted concrete floor. The cabinet doesn't have a bottom and the drawers do not seal.

If powder does light off it will burn fast but not explode. Powder needs to be contained to build pressure and explode. Unless your locality has codified NFPA you don't have anything to worry about. Either way, if the powder does ignite 1) it won't burn long enough to put out and 2) there isn't anything that will put it out since it has it's own oxidizer.

I have a friend who has given his neighbors the advice of "If you see smoke, run."

Perhaps you can comply to the federal law of storing your powder, “good to have them in a wooden enclosure” but your local laws may be different and more strict. If you tell the fire department about your P&P's they will probably want to inspect your stuff.
Its nice of you to consider the safety of others, never the less your fire dept may give you a hard time and ruin the hobby you enjoy. Is it really worth it?
They may even show up again and again and again.....”The police always take side with another badge so they might not help in harassment” anyway I don't believe that there is a storage code for primers, at-least I never found one. You ever hear of that saying: “Let sleeping dogs lie” store your primers away from your powders. don't tell anyone about your stuff and Get some rest. oh and for all UPS knows, you could have purchased supply's for the group of guys at the range, "who u don't know" LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Sam:
A metal 2 drawer filing cabinet in my reloading room. It sits on a painted concrete floor. The cabinet doesn't have a bottom and the drawers do not seal.

If powder does light off it will burn fast but not explode. Powder needs to be contained to build pressure and explode. Unless your locality has codified NFPA you don't have anything to worry about. Either way, if the powder does ignite 1) it won't burn long enough to put out and 2) there isn't anything that will put it out since it has it's own oxidizer.

I remember when stuff like that used to be called "common sense"..

No way I would volunteer ANY of my firearm/reloading information to local authorities without it being required. To many control freaks thesedays who want to make every aspect of our lives their business. They are everywhere. Screw um.

Why even open your mouth about this? Basically, the old adage of "shoot, shovel & shut up" applies here. And for the record, I have no reloading components. Sheesh!
Bear in Fairbanks

I just wished i had some powder and primers to have to store.

They all got washed away in the flood of 1906.

Yep no one's bizz but your own.
And cool dry place,those newer small air conditioners don't cost much to use these days.

quote:

Originally posted by PaulS:
The national fire codes require that no more than 50 pounds of smokeless powder be stored in a residence. You can store limited amounts without any precautions but over that amount and up to 50 pounds must be stored in a magazine that will withstand a fire for 30 minutes. (1" of hardwood walls, bottom and top are the recommended minimum) I built a box of 3/4" plywood with 1/2" drywall inside and out and the recommended loose fitting lid to hold my 48 pounds of powder. This box is about twice the protection that is recommended and as I see it there is no need to tell anyone that it is there. You don't need to tell your insurance company or your fire department. Mine is kept in my reloading area of my shop - heated and cooled - to prevent temp and humidity swings. Heat above 120F is considered very bad when storing powder as it will quickly degrade the powder making it useless.

I had no idea, I have about 150 pounds of powder in my spare bedroom!

I would not ask the fire department about where to keep matches.....let alone reloading supplies! Not that they may not be great guys and even have decent info......

Dan

Gently Amigos. Last I heard was legal 50 lbs. Could be wrong,don't post otherwise.

6 eight pound kegs is all the powder I need. as On gets low I order another so I never have more than 50 pounds.

No more than 50 lbs?

Ooops

Oh well

Ditto Ted,also they will be more disinclined to approach the structure (i.e. putting out the fire).