I would try it with a BB gun, but in my garage, safely out of sight!

Buy an Oehler and call it a day!

Guys for the money, what would you all consider the best Chronograph for the money

any info appreciated
thanks
tim

For my money it's the Oehler model #35, but without the printer. I can write down the info as the barrel is cooling.
It's got the proof channel which is actually a second chrono, the ability to spread out the skyscreens for more accuracy on those really fast moving varmint bullets, and the company stands behind their products. Of course if you spear one of the components then you pay to replace it. Real nice folks from Austin, Texas.

I'll 2nd that. I have been using a PACT & it's done ok but it's picky about light. I just got a new Oehler 35 & it runs great. No printer, you have to right down the load info anyway, just dot off the avg./SD & reset.

Depends on what you really want.

I've done the math on the Shooting Chrony, and their $69 model is repeatable within about 1 fps. However, you'll need to do your chronographing in the mid part of the day, from about 9:30 until 3:30 or so, longer during the summer.
You'll also want to do it on sunny or cloudy-bright days (distinct shadows). If you don't object to that, then it is clearly the best performance per buck. As stated, some of the other models are a little less finicky about lighting conditions. If that floats your boat, then spend the money for something with better sensors... just be sure they are really better.

There are two kinds of chronographs.... those that are going to get shot, and those that don't get used much.

I just bought a PACT model 1 & it has worked perfect so far. I have so far had less problems tthan my buddys shooting crony. The sky screens seemed to pick up every bullet I have shot & every arrow I shot plus it worked on my sons bb guns. Hope this helps. I think they all work but like the others hace said some a just fusser than others.

I have had a Oehler, a PACT and a Chrony. The one I carry with me all the time is the Chrony. It is compact, fits in my "tackle" box, and is accurate. I have a set of the "shades" that come with it, and have had little trouble getting readings (much less than the other two). It is cheaper by far than the other two and does the job. Ku-dude

If you're going to write down the results and calculate everything yourself (which is what I do because it's easy), I'd go with the cheapest Chrony you can get (I've seen them on sale for about 50 bucks). They are close enough that you will never, EVER notice a ballistic difference between it and the more expensive rigs. They are very lightweight, compact, and easy to set up. Since they are small and light, you can use a lightweight tripod. They don't have much side area, so the wind is less likely to blow them over. And my experience is they get a read with a high degree of dependability. In fact, mine will continue reading after the sun sets (without the shades, of course). It's so cheap that I don't worry about it when muzzle blast knocks a screen off, or cast bullets sling lube all over it.

All in all, I've been using it for 15 years and I've only had one problem with it--the battery died and I didn't have a spare. That's another thing--the battery lasts for YEARS. I turn it on when I get to the range, and it stays on until I leave.

The unit still works well even though its age shows. I tried a few other models a few years ago (the PACT, ProChrono, and an Chrony Gamma), but ended up coming back to the old F-1. I tried the Pact and Prochrono first, but they were a hassle to set up, bulky, and finicky. I had trouble with muzzle blast affecting the readings, and slight changes in light gave me error readings.

So I tried the Chrony Gamma (which uses the same folding housing as my F-1). It worked well in terms of getting a reading, but I didn't like the way the software worked. It was a pain in the ass to navigate through the various shots and functions, the user documentation sucked BIGTIME, and I could not get it to download to my PC (which is what I REALLY wanted). Also, the extra memory of the Gamma, which I thought would enable me to store a days worth of shooting and download it to my PC when I got home, cannot be accessed by the downloading software (which in my case did not work anyway). This means you can only use the expanded memory if you are going to store your data and write it down later (which means navigating through the least user-friendly interface I've EVER used). In an effort to get the downloading interface working, I called customer support four or five times, got voicemail, and didn't get a call back for weeks (by which time I had returned the unit). Also, the printer (a somewhat expensive option, considering the overall price of a chrony) was a chintzy piece of crap.

I think my customer service experience was a fluke because it was around the holidays (the gamma was a christmas present), but the interface was so kludgy that hours of tinkering only frustrated me to hell.

whew.

To conclude, finally, I'll stick with the old standard--a Chrony F-1, my reloading notebook, and a pen.

I have two fo the Chrony original F-1 chronys and one of the Chrony Gamma Master.

Never had a problem with any of them.

One more comment: Do your stats in Excel, or on a cheap statistical calculator. As mentioned, it is easier than messing with the built-in stat functions functions of a chronograph.

tbeasely1,

The Oehler Model 35 is kinda the "gold standard" for chronos. The CED chrono looks real interesting though. I have owned a Custom Chronograph (now obsolete-can no longer purchase paper screens), a Chrony (gathering dust under my reloading bench--it's fine if the planets are in alignment and you hold your lips right), a PACT (sold it), and currently own a Oehler 35 with the third (proof) screen. I declined the printer (I've got a perfectly useable notebook and TI-83 graphing calculator).

Of course, (of course!) the Oehler is the priciest of the bunch.

Casey

My chronograph is a 35P and I think the best feature is the printer which I wouldn't be without. You can see the tape in this picture.

I hope this helps. Rich

I have the Chrony Alpha. No problems so far. In fact, only two lost shots the first time out and none since. I have the basic Alpha without the printer. As others have said the few seconds to write down the shot velocity is extra time for the barrel to cool. Like others who obsess about precision at long range I am only concerned with average velocity and extreme spread.

If you truly want a much better chronograph than a Chrony then get a Competition Electronics. I think most here will agree that the CED is better. Whether the Pact or Oehler is better than the Shooting Chrony would raise a heated and lengthy thread that would rival some of the Match King discussions.

I have been very happy with my Oehler 35. I do not have the printer but may add one in the coming weeks.
Stay well,
Paul

To all of you that state that Chrony's and Pacts and whatever brand you care to talk about are as accurate and dependable as an Oehler I have a question. On what evidence do you base your opinion and why does everyone constantly compare brand X, Y, and Z to Oehler? I am the rangemaster on a fairly busy range here in Prescott, AZ and have been for over 4 years now and I see chronographs on a daily basis and you can believe I have seen them all. The people that have the $50.00 toys don't have a clue whether or not the wonder box is telling them the truth or not. I actually had a guy set his brand X up behind my 35P the other day and when the readings were anywhere from 20 to 75 fps apart he actually told me I needed to send my Oehler in for a physical! When all the ammunition manufacturers and all the ballistics laboratories use Oehler equipment, thats good enough for me. One other thing that is very important to me is the fact that it says "MADE IN THE USA"

Ah, Jim, why don't you tell us how you really feel?

In answer to your question, I have performed a formal Measurement Systems Analysis on the Shooting Chrony. This involves setting two of them up in series, and shooting over both of them. From the average difference between the two readings, you can derive the random error in each Chrony, and from that you can calculate the Effective Resolution.

Having done all that, I can state that the Effective Resolution of the Shooting Chrony is 1.15 fps. That is, it is repeatable enough that you can resolve changes down to nearly 1 fps. The better question is, do you really need better repeatability than that?

Electronics are extremely cheap. A small microP, with a crystal clock, a couple of cheap plastic lenses, two photocells, some shaping and amplifying circuitry to square up the bullet "blip", and an LCD to display the result, and you've got a chronograph. It would be hard to get more than about $35-40 tied up in bill of materials for any of them, without a printer, even the ones that cost $350.

I'm a Chrony user, too. I've had good luck with mine. I've shot through mine and two different Oehlers at different times. The results were always close. One thing that no one has mentioned is the ease of setting up a Chrony. I have a friend who is a custom gun builder. He's the guy with the two Oehlers. He bought a Chrony for quick checks after using mine. They are so easy to set up.

knobmtn

My name is Clark Magnuson, and I am Chrony user.

It started out with a few pellet gun shots in the basement.
Soon I had a tri-pod to the range and shot my metal rods until they were bent, pounded them straight with a rock, and was looking for more.

I found myself posting velocities on the internet.
I fantasized writing a load book, just me and my Chrony.

Then one day it started raining and the Chrony stopped working.
I got hold of myself and took my Chrony home for a good drying out.

I have been clean for a month, but I still have the urge to go to the range with this red box sitting here next to me.

I bought an oehler 35p last summer to replace a pact that I have had for several years. I would highly recommend the oehler. dave

Clark Magnuson,

Hang in there. Some will tell you that you could just let the little red box ride on the seat of the truck with you. If you're not careful you'll be right back where you were. Its too cheap and easy. $70 bucks or so and you can start over. The only real cure is a $2000.00 Oehler with all the bells and whistles. Then you'll be afraid to take a chance at the range.

Laughing my butt off
knobmtn

Mr Jim White

To all of you that state that Chrony's and Pacts and whatever brand you care to talk about are as accurate and dependable as an Oehler I have a question....Sir, I have the same question for you.

On what evidence do you base your opinion and why does everyone constantly compare brand X, Y, and Z to Oehler?

On what evidence do you base your opinion on ?

The people that have the $50.00 toys don't have a clue whether or not the wonder box is telling them the truth or not.

Sir , could you explain the test procedure you go through to verify your Oehler is correct ?

I have ask this question several times before and so far no one have come forward with a testing procedure....I had 2 Oehler's at on time, and a Chrony. The Oehlers read about 200 fps difference between them and the Chrony was right in the middle. Which one was accurate ? I dont know. If electronics were perfect , I would guess there would be no need to zero an electronic scale would there ? I now only use the Chrony, customers put bullets through the Oehlers. I have my Chrony set up on my indoor range and with the light kit on , and the inside of the range being very dark, I rarely get an error. I do my own pressure testing and it is amazing what a chronograph of any brand wont tell you...

Charlie Sisk

Sisk Rifles

So Charlie have you figured out how to reference a Chronograph yet? I asked my supplier (I have a CED) & his only suggestion was to buy 2. Not a great solution.

I once set up my CED but did not push the sensors into the the rail fully maybe 1/4 inch short. The readings were about 150fps lower than when I did mpush it in fully. Sometimes the set ups are dodgy too. Different if you have it permanently set up you can measure these things.

Regards
JohnT

I'm on my third Shooting Crony, I upgrade when I shoot one. I have the bata master now. I havnt had any problem at all, I have used it all times of day. It folds up small so you can put it in your shooting bag. I havent found a reason to buy a more expensive one.

CED Millenium.

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/chronographs.htm

Call and talk to Jim (Ristow). He's a hoot and very smart about all things accuracy related. I bought a CED to replace my POS PACT and couldn't be happier. Nice feature to to plug it into your serial port and download data from your range session. Plus, the Infrared system is nice for indoor shooting or uneven light...much improved consistency.

Good Luck!

JOhnT
No , I aint figured it out yet.....I'm beginning to think it aint possible... ...
Charlie

Being as how you responded to my post, I'll assume that "all of you" includes, or perhaps specifically refers to, me. Maybe you should go back and read my post again--only pay attention this time.

I'll address your concerns point-by-point.

Quote:

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To all of you that state that Chrony's and Pacts and whatever brand you care to talk about are as accurate and dependable as an Oehler I have a question. On what evidence do you base your opinion and why does everyone constantly compare brand X, Y, and Z to Oehler?

---

I didn't compare anything to an Ohler--I compared my Chrony to a Prochrono and PACT. And, if you pay attention while reading, they were units that I possessed and tested at the range. In the case of the Prochrono, it was very sensitive to muzzle blast so I had to place it quite far down range. In the case of the PACT, it was sensitive to just about everything. According to PACT customer service, the cables and sensors had to be carefully placed to avoid excessive blast, heat and sunlight. In the end, the equipment sensitivities, combined with the larger size and (in the case of the PACT) more complex setup (bar for screens, cables, larger tripod, etc.) made both units too much of a hassle.

In regard to the data, I was only able to obtain readings from the Prochrono (the Pact was never reliable so I returned it under warranty). There was less than 2% difference between the Prochrono and the Chrony, but part of this could be explained by the fact that the Prochono was a bit further away. Even if the variation in these reading WAS due to equipment accuracy differences, what is the practical distinction? 1/4" @ 400 yards for high powered rifle? Not enough to make it worth that carry and setup hassle.

Quote:

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The people that have the $50.00 toys don't have a clue whether or not the wonder box is telling them the truth or not.

---

I actually do have a clue. I have a pretty good idea what various cartridges will do either by actual testing on the chronos of others, ballistic charts, load manuals, and internet forums. If something is way out of whack, I'm going to catch it.

Does that mean I can empirically determine the accuracy of my chrony? No. But neither can you.

Quote:

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When all the ammunition manufacturers and all the ballistics laboratories use Oehler equipment, thats good enough for me.

---

I don't know if ALL of them do or not. I've never contacted them all. I would suspect that you have not, either. However, I would not be surprised if many do, but that does not mean that all other brands are completely disfunctional as your statement implies.

As for my opinion of Ohlers, are they more accurate and dependable than the rest? Not necessarily, but statistically I would think they would be. But in order to provide me with a very slight increase in confidence, I'll have to:
*tote around a bunch of extension bars, two tripods, three screens, three sensors, cables, printer, box, paper rolls, etc.
*spend an hour setting it up
*limit my shooting to just one point/distance downrange because moving the setup requires a ceasefire and a boatload of realignment (I have a small power remote control tilt/pan head that I put under the Chrony--I can swing it around and rock it back and forth).
*forget about using it at makeshift ranges where uneven ground prevents easy alignment of sensors

In general I think Ohler makes excellent units, but for my application they are impractical as well as expensive. I don't want to be toting around all the extra hardware and worry about it getting damaged with the constant setup and takedown, rain, wind, sun, other shooters (much more hardware downrange to be shot than my Chrony), etc. But if you want to make your trips to the range complicated and inefficient, that's your business.

F-1 Chrony user here and very pleased. New from D&R for $57, mounted on a cheap tripod for portability.

Clark your killing me with these posts.....maybe if you just tried the three step program.......although I use the five step myself so no sabots take my baby out when I use the ML'er.

woods

Rods? You can hit the rods, and miss the box? Dang, I wish I could shoot like that. Put a 9x18 pistol round right through the electronics. Figured that meant the rent was due on my Chrony, so I made the trip to Sportsman's Warehouse, and upgraded a notch.

Oh... checking the calibration on a chronograph isn't all that hard. You just tie a function generator to a 'scope and a frequency counter, and set your function generator to the frequency you want. Then you electronically "gate" so just one pulse goes to the first LED, at the front sensor, and the second pulse goes to the rear one.

It's also an exercise in futility.

Back in the old days, chronograph calibration could wander. Modern circuits use a crystal controlled oscillator as a time base, and even a very cheap crystal is good to 10 ppm per degree C. So that's 1000 ppm, or .1%, from the freezing to boiling points of water. There just isn't enough error there to worry about.

The clock in the Shooting Chrony is 12 MHz, which is .083 microseconds per cycle. A 3000 fps bullet transits the photocells in 333 microseconds, which then lets the circuitry measure the interval to within 1 part in a little over 4000... ample resolution.

In recent vintage chronographs, the major error is probably in the shape of the triggering waveform generated by the bullet. If you're getting a nice, crisp trigger pulse, your reading will be accurate... end of discussion. But making sure that the triggering pulse is crisp, well, that's whole 'nuther story.

Quote:

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If you're getting a nice, crisp trigger pulse, your reading will be accurate... end of discussion.

---

Denton, what are the variables that are likely to affect a crisp trigger pulse? Are there likely to be much, if any, differences between brands of shooting chronographs?

Aye, there's the rub!

The crispness of the trigger pulse depends on a bunch of decisions the design engineer made, including the amount of random noise in the circuit, and how he/she decided to shape the "blip" from the bullet.

I don't know for sure, but I think that having infrared LED's above the sensors, as some models do, would be better than depending on sunshine, as the Shooting Chrony does. It might also be a good idea to use a piece of the IR plastic that they use in TV remotes. If you mount that above the sensors, it should block a lot of the ambient light.

There is plenty of room in the Shooting Chrony for some AA batteries to power LEDs. I've thought about playing with that, so I can chrony at the indoor range, and on cloudy days too.

The Oehler 35 is first rate. All chronographs are somewhat condition sensitive, but my dad and I both have 35s with no complaints, only praise. Also have a friend in another town that has one too and he and his son are very pleased. They are also a great company to deal with that wants to please the customer.

The shape of the bullet, and the direction of the sunlight can effect the timing of the pulse (a scosh).
Muzzle blast will blur the bullet shape. To test for reflection ; turn the chrony on it's side, or change the cover.
To check muzzle blast effects move back 10 feet and see if there is a difference.
I have shot both the rods, and the electronics, that must prove somthing . That is why I love the Chrony they will take it back as a trade
in on another rebuilt. As to all the bells and whistles; I have no problem writing down the velocity in my
note book. I have to write it there anyway. Standard Deviation is one of those things that people talk about, but really have no use for.
low standard deviation means more consistant velocities. Duh you just wrote them down, read them.
Low standard deviation should indicate the best accuracy. Duh look at the target.
Good Luck!

Many years ago, I started with a Chrony. Not being happy with the "too many missed shots" and the highly innacurate readings under certain light conditions, I decided to upgrade. I am currently using a ProChrono and thus far, have been satisfied. It seems to be considerably less sensitive to lighting variations and also consistently more accurate. My nexy chrono, however, will be an Oehler 35P !!

Rich

Am I the only guy that first tests his Chrony at the range with a BB gun to see if it is triggering right, before shooting the big guns?

I know I look stupid at the range with a BB gun and a Chrony.
It is a Daisy model 25, just like I had when I was 10.