I have a strange set of problems. I have a new Marlin .243 bolt action rifle. I have shot some reloads that I had loaded for my previous .243 (that I gave to a nephew) and they shot very well, although some of the ammo wouldn't chamber (I shot what would chamber). Because so many cases would not chamber in my new gun, I returned the resizing die (RCBS) and exchanged it for another. All the cases FL sized in my new die now chamber very easily. However, some of the ammo will not eject, that is, the bolt will not pull it our of the chamber, but it isn't stuck in the chamber--all you have to do is tilt the gun and the case will simply fall out of the chamber.

I loaded some Barnes 85 grain TSXs using Varget starting at 35 grains. When I went to shoot the new loads, on the third shot of the lowest charge (35 grains of Varget), I experienced a case separation about a third of the way up the case. I then checked the cases of the first two rounds fired and noticed that the primers were pierced and flattened severely, and the case had imprints of the bolt on the face of the case (all of these indicate high pressure). I went back to by reloading bench and pulled the two remaining cartridges at that charge rate and double checked the weight and it was as it should have been, 35 grains. I also checked to make sure it was Varget, and it was. What is going on? This is the lightest load recommended and it is showing pressure signs? Or, could it have something to do with the hew FL sizing die? In particular, could it be bumping the shoulders back too much? With the shoulders set back too much the case would be pushed forward by the firing pin and then the case would be slammed back against the bolt, giving the appearance of high pressure. Also the case would be stretched because the neck stuck in the chamber & wouldn't slide back. Also, this would account for the cartridges not being ejected on unfired ammo--the head space was so great that the ammo wasn't being forced back past the extractors.

However, it also occurred to me that it could be the Barnes TSX bullets causing too high pressure. I've never shot them in this gun. Could the barrel be on the tight side of spec and the sold copper bullets causing excessive pressure?

If it is a problem of too much headspace, I'll have to reform the brass I've already sized with the new die, but how do I expand it back to the appropriate headspace? Could I lube the cases and fire form them in the guns chamber? (By lubing the case, it would prevent the case necks from sticking and thus reduce stretching, and thus, firing them would reform the brass rather than stretch it.)

Red,

I think you possibly have several things going on here at the same time.

First, of the "leftover" reloads that were from a different rifle that wouldn't chamber in your new Marlin, what bullet were they loaded with, and more importantly, what over all length were they seated to?

What over all length were your new loads of Barnes bullets seated to? Do you think it's possible that the bullets were seated too long and jamming in the rifling? Possibly why some of the originals wouldn't chamber?

Also, the Barnes bullets like to be "jumped" to the lands. They usually like to be jumped far, like 30 to 50 thousanths. If you're seating them close to the rifling, or into it, that could cause a pressure spike problem.

Of the rounds that wouldn't eject, could you feel the extractor "let go" of the rim and leave it in the chamber? Or did it feel like the extractor never had the rim at all?

If you take one of each round, one that would chamber, one that wouldn't chamber, a fired piece of brass, an unfired piece of brass. Either "smoke" or cover the round or brass with magic marker, then chamber the round or brass, you should see marks into the smoke or marker ink from where it's contacting the chamber or throat area. That will show if the neck is binding also.

If you remove the bolt from the rifle, can you take a piece of brass and see if the extractor will grab and hold the rim if you press it into the bolt face? Does your extractor look normal?

How many times fired is this 243 brass before you started this Marlin test?

Have you measured the difference in the neck diameters between loaded rounds and fired rounds? That might help indicate if you have a tight neck problem in the chamber too.

Do you know a local gunsmith that you can go to and check the headspace on that rifle? If you lived near me, I'd do it for you as I have a 243 Go gauge.

Is this rifle really new, or just "new" to you? Original barrel, or has someone "worked on" it?

I would not fire lubed cases in the chamber. Just sounds like a bad idea to me.

It may all boil down to you're not seating the Barnes bullets far enough off the rifling? The over pressure from that may have knocked the extractor out of alignment or otherwise damaged it.

I agree with more than one thing wrong. Not all chambers are the same so it is not uncommon for once fired brass to not go in a different gun. In fact it is very likely to not fit. Example: My fathers rem. 700 7mm mag once fired will not go in my uncles Weatherby. The Weatherby chambers are a bit tighter than the Remingtons.

I doubt it had anything to do with the dies but you have a new set now anyway. I bet if you used new brass or once fired from the new gun and just resized the neck you wouldn't have had a loading problem.

It is for sure a pressure issue. Just food for thought, I accidently loaded some .284 in a 270 and they loaded and shot. The pressure was so high that it blew out the primers. Gone! The case was stuck and required a couple of light bumps on the bolt to extract. Fortunately it was in a mouser action so the claw did its job and pulled the case.

In your case you might want to check the chamber to see if there isn't a machining bur or ridge that allows the loose case to enter but is fire formed against it. Like a piton hammered into a cliff wall. Even a very small machining ridge could really bite into a brass case. I have seen scratch marks on once fired cases that is from a poor chamber finish. It is easily fixed and if your rifle is new I bet the company will fix it.

You will want to check the spring tension and ridge of your extractor to make sure it is not damaged.

I have not really used Barnes much because I could never get them to group in my guns so I can't comment on the bullet.

+1 on all of Slowpoke Slim's remarks.

Hey Guys! Thanks for the interest and help!

The original bullets were Hornady V-Max.

The gun is out of the box new.

Thus, the barrel is the new factory barrel.

No, I could not feel the extractor "let go" of the rim and leave it in the chamber. It felt like the extractor never had the rim at all.

The brass has been fired four or five times at the most.

I'll measure the COL on all ammo mentioned and let you know. I'll also measure neck neck diameter and let you know.

Note: The cartridges that wouldn't eject were completed ammo that I was trying to see if it would chamber. The cartridges loaded with Barnes bullets that had been fired in the Marlin all ejected after being fired.

I double checked the cases and they are .243 Winchester cases.

I,ll do all the other checks that have been suggested and let you know the answers this evening.

quote:

Originally posted by Red C.:
No, I could not feel the extractor "let go" of the rim and leave it in the chamber. It felt like the extractor never had the rim at all. ...

Hey Red, It sounds like you FLRed the Cases too much and the Extractor "never" got in the Groove to start with. If the Shoulder is set back too much, it will allow the Case to go into the Chamber too far and not allow the Extractor to get ahold of the Case.

The Cartridges with the Barnes Bullets "might have been" held far enough back, due to the Bullets touching the Lands, so the Extractor could get into the groove.

As always, I recommend P-FLRing Cases. It "might" resolve your problem and will always provide the best possible accuracy potential.

Best of luck to you.

If the chamber was so large/cartridge so small that it could ride into battery in front of the extractor would the cartridge still fire?? That would be an awful lot of headspace. And when it fires, wouldn't it be driven back against the bolt face for the extractor to grab?

It is not the Barnes bullets. I loaded some using Sierra bullets and have the same problem. Before I fire the round it will not extract, but will simply fall out of the chamber when the rifle is tilted butt down. When I fired one at minimum charge there are high pressure signs--flattened and pierced primer (I did not shoot another one).

I decided to try some more of the ammo I loaded for the other .243 I used to have and that was loaded using a different FL sizing. (I had to go through about 9 cartridges before I found one that would chamber--that's why I'm using a different sizing die now.) These cartridges chamber tightly and can be extracted before they are fired. They also fire just fine--no pressure signs.

It just has to be something to do with my FL sizing die pushing the shoulders back too much. I think it is also reducing the volume of the case enough to cause higher pressure. I am going to send the FL sizing die back for another one. I will let you know what I find when I get the new one back.

Red,

I just don't see that being the problem. I can't see how setting the shoulder back can cause a STARTING LOAD to seriously overpressure in a normal chamber. We're talking a 243 win FL die and a 243 win chambered rifle, right?

There's something else going on.


You would have to be crushing the case substantially when you resize it to get anywhere close to that much case capacity issue. What does your fired brass look like, and what does it look like once FL resized?

I strongly encourage you to have someone look the rifle over. At least check the headspace, but a chamber cast would be better. Something is seriously not right, and I very much doubt it has anything to do with your sizing die.

What does a factory round chamber like?

Have you tried any new brass, or are you still working on the batch that's been fired 4 to 5 times?

I REALLY wish you lived close to me, I'd have you come over and I'd pull that barrel off the receiver and check it out + run a chamber cast. The Marlin bolt takes the same tools to pull barrels as the Savage bolt. It's very easy to do.

If you remove the extractor from the bolt, can you then chamber a round that previously wouldn't chamber?

Red,

Do you have a way to take a close up picture of the bolt head? I'm wondering if it's something like a defective or mishaped extractor.

quote:

the bolt will not pull it our of the chamber, but it isn't stuck in the chamber--all you have to do is tilt the gun and the case will simply fall out of the chamber.

Sounds like an extractor problem to me.

There's no way using a different bullet would cause a case to not extract after firing.

Problem Solved!!!

I got a new FL sizing die and some nearly new cases (only fired once in my friends rifle). I FL sized these cases and used the same loads that I first had problems with. THEY SHOT JUST FINE. (I could also eject them before firing them--which I couldn't do with the bad ammo.)

There is something wrong with the original FL Sizing die I was using. When set up according to instructions it would push the shoulders back too far. Thus, the ammo was going into the chamber too far for the extractor to grab, but not so far that they wouldn't fire. Apparently when fired, the loose fitting cases would then slam back against the bolt face and firing pin. They were slamming against the bolt face so hard that the primers were being flattened. Then they were caught by the extractors and could be ejected.

I have never heard of this problem before, but since everything works fine with ammo made using the new FL sizing die, this must have been what was going on.

A problem I now have is about 100 pieces of 243 brass that I FL sized in the old (bad) die. They all have the shoulders pushed back too far.

I really appreciate all the help, especially the concern offered by Slowpoke. Thanks so much for your desire to help!!!

What has happened is rather classic. You might want to read up on Partial Full Length resizing. I opine that there is nothing wrong with the original die, you just have a good deal of head space in your rifle. Using 1X brass (that has been fired in your rifle) and partial resizing it should clear your problem.