I am staring to reload and want to develop hunting loads ( 140g partitions) for my 7mm-08 (Rem 700, LSS Mt.). I am a bit overwhelmed by the number of potential variables (powder, charge, spacing off lands, etc), and I wanted to get some ideas about how you go about load development.

A complicating issue is that I am about 1.5 hours drive from my range, so I want to minimize the number of back and forth trips while I am in development mode, and be prepare with the right set of loads to try when I do head out to the range. Some specific questions:

1. For a specific powder, (e.g. Varget) how many different charges should I load up before heading to the range as I try different loads, and at what weight increments (e.g. .5 grain)?

2. How many cartridges (e.g. 3, 5 7)do you need fill with each specific load before you can be confident of the consistency of how it is shooting?

3. How many diffenert powders do you ususally have to try to find the sweet spot?

4. Sequencing: What do you tackle first: powder selection, powder charge, seating off of lands?

Any of your tips and experiences will be very helpful. (If I just had a range out my back door, it would be a lot easier to tinker with all of these varibles!) Thanks in advance.

I am a relative newbie at loading rifle cartridges, and I have been experimenting with loads for a 7mm-08 as well. Aside from using a standard manual such as the Speer manual, I also bought the 7mm-08 �Loadbook,� which has loads from a number of different component manufacturers, including the major bullet and powder manufacturers (including Nosler). Those 2 resources gave me a lot of data to sift through. While the Loadbook alone is good, I still refer to the Speer manual for the ballistics tables and other step by step reloading tips, which the Loadbook doesn�t have. Because you want to use 140 grain partitions, you may just want to get the Nosler book instead of a different manufacturer�s book, and pick a powder that they recommend.

The main thing I do from the outset is duplicate exactly the suggestions of the manual I am using.

On the issue of powders, there are a lot of variables. One variable may be the stuff you have on hand. If you don�t feel like buying more, you may want to start with what you have. Another variable may be the search for a powder that works for multiple calibers that you load. Another variable is whether you are going to be using one powder across a lot of different bullet weights in the same caliber. If you look at a lot of the data and see that one powder that gives consistent performance over a wide variety of bullet weights that you may be using (without a lot of compressed loads), maybe you should try that first. I pick the powder first.

I have been loading 8 rounds of each load to test, 5 for the chronograph and 3 to shoot at 200 yards. I really should roll at least 10, because I usually forget to turn on the chronograph, or one or more don�t get picked up when I shoot, or I call a flyer and don�t feel that it is representative of group size. I have been working up in .5 (1/2) grain increments. I have been amazed at the difference that a half grain up or down can have on accuracy and/or velocity. If I find a load that I consider to have a reasonable velocity for the purpose for which it is intended, and it is accurate, I tend to stop there. I would rather have a load that is accurate than one which is pushing the envelope from a speed point of view. Assuming you go to max, you are looking at about 100 rounds just for testing purposes.

So far, I think that the issue of calculating the distance off the lands is largely irrelevant to me. The magazines on my short action Remingtons won�t allow me to seat rounds to lengths greater than about 2.81,� leaving a lot of extra room to the lands.

I have enjoyed lurking on this forum, and have learned a lot. I am sure that, pretty soon, you will have better advice from people who have forgotten more than I will ever know about this stuff.

Good luck.

Lotsa questions...

Let's tackle the easiest first.

Since you are using a bolt-action, magazine-fed rifle, load your initial rounds to aroun 0.100" shorter than the maximum length allowed by your magazine. (This should seat the bullet off the lands, if it doesn't, then seat the bullets deeper until they are off the lands.)

You have already decided on your bullet weight, make and model. So that is a no brainer.

As for powder selection, that's the tough one to figure out.

You can go to the different websites and see what powders they suggest (I suggest Varget From 33.1 grains to 44.6 grains and the Remington 9-1/2 primer).

You then look at what you have in stock, and decide what you want to buy.

As for loading steps...if I were loading anew, using the data for the powder I suggest, I would load:

33.1 39.2
33.7 39.8
34.3 40.4
34.9 41.0
35.5 41.6
36.1 42.2
36.7 42.8
37.3 43.4
37.9 44.0
38.5 44.6

And I would load 6 of each, at least. 5 for the "record", and 1 for fouling.

After you have fired those loadings, select the best 10, and do it all over again.

Then the best 5, and then the best 3 and then the best 2, and finally you should have the best 1.

Now, if you have the room to play with bullet seating depth, load 10 at the original depth, load 10 at 0.050" longer and another 10 at 0.050" shorter.

If either of the groups are better than your original, then start working on either side of that seating depth in 0.010" steps.

Now, here's the kicker...say that my choice of Varget did not meet your personal requirements, then you have to select another powder and start all over again.

Sometimes you luck-out and the first powder, bullet, case, primer and COAL combination is the one that will put 5 bullets into a single hole at 100 yards every time.

Sometimes it seems like nothing will work (I spent over 6 years finding the proper load for one of my .25-06's! http://stevespages.com/25062story.html ).

Good luck...

When I started loading about 7 years ago, I was faced with the same dillema. I live about 30 minutes form my range, but it's still a hassle to load up a bunch of ammo in differing weights, go shoot them, only to find that they all suck.

And you never know if one of those powder charges might be good, but only if you had mucked with the seating depths a bit.

I'm lucky in that I have a range about 80 yards long at my place, so I can muck around a bit, and see what causes high pressure etc, but it's not as good as a proper range where you can work stuff out. Not to mention it's often windy at my place...

So what I do nowdays, is take the whole show to the range. Plan on spending a good chunk of the day there. You'll need to mount your press on a 2X6 or 2X8, so you can clamp it down. Everything needs to be clamped down, and your scale needs to be in a wind free enviroment (there is a little shed at our range)

Anyways, I take all the stuff I need, plus lunch and water and cleaning supplies...and a few other guns to dick around with while the barrel is cooling.

I try to prep and prime all the cases I'll need at home, so I just have to charge and seat bullets at the range.

Steve (ricciardelli) knows alot more than I do about handloading. He is a HANDLOADER, whereas I consider myself a RELOADER. So my opinions are wortha bout what you paid for them...

However,if you are just looking for a good hunting load with your rifle, his process might be a bit much for a new loader to do...

For hunting, you are probably looking for a load that groups about 1.5" or less CONSISTENTlY...

I usually start a little low, and work up shooting at the same target. Eventually, I will see that some (different) powder charges will group together nicely, so I load 3 for each of those powder charges, (usually around 3) and shoot at different targets, to check group size. Usually one will be better than the others, so that's when I start mucking with seating depthes if necessary.

If you get 1.5" groups (or less) that is probably all you need to go hunting with. You won't win any competitions against serious shooters with that, but for a hunting rifle it is just fine. 'back in the day' (before I was born) any hunting rifle that was a 2" shooter was considered accurate

Also, when I start to work up a load for a Nosler Partition, I usually use Hornady Interlocks for it. For some reason, they always seem to do similar things, in my limited experience.

The resson I use the Interlocks is that they are a quarter the price of the Partitions.

Hornadys are very good 'conventional' bullets. but IMHO. the partitions are better.

Anyways...I use the Hornadys to figure out a good powder charge, then I back down a few grains and work up with partitions. Make sure you back down a few grains, though as conventional wisdom would suggest that the Pertitions, with a different design, could alter pressures, although it never seems much different to me...

Anyways, you've come to the right place...there are a bunch of 'hobbyists' like me, but there are a good number of real experts (like Steve) on this forum, too.

[ 06-24-2003, 06:15: Message edited by: Gatehouse ]

One tool that I have found to be highly valuable for load development, is my Case Master runout guage.
All potential loads get checked for runout prior to going to the range.
This eliminates one more area of error for load development......sakofan..

You can simplify this business quite a bit with some study. You will likely find that Varget is among the best powders available, and it works best at full loading density. You can skip all the low pressure testing. Hodgdon lists 42.2 max with a 140 grain bullet, and that is probably about where best accuracy will be. Reducing 10%, start with 38 grains. A couple at 38 just to make sure pressure is safe, a couple at 39 and at 40 grains. Then three each at 40.5, 41, 41.5 and 42 to check for pressure signs and groups. Assuming no overpressure indications, you should get best groups at the 41.5 to 42 grain level, and, if so, you probably have your load. It is enlightening to chronograph loads at this point.

You can tune for length if you like, but will probably find that the longest round that will feed from the magazine is short of the lands and is the best length for accuracy.

This ain't rocket science. Odds are, 42 grains of Varget (which likes CCI BR-2 primers, by the way) and the 140 Partition will do anything you can ask of a 7-08 in the hunting field. More load development is probably a waste of time.

Load development can drive you crazy if you get to picky about it.
If you are just reloading for hunting it can be as simple as you want to make it.

You already have your bullet chosen.
Next is your powder, pick the two in your reloading book which show the highest velocities at max loads, pick a good match primer, stick with one brand of brass, lets say Winchester.

So what variables are left,
1. amount of powder start with 2 grains less than the max load shown in your reloading manual.
2. bullet seating depth, make a dummy cartridge with no powder or primer seat the bullet out a ways longer than recommended cartridge over all length and see if it will chamber easily in your rifle, if not seat it in a little farther, keep doing this till your round chambers easily, use this for your over all cartridge length.

Load up 6 of each and go to range, shoot two 3 shot groups of each at 100 yards to identify if either combination has potential.
If you get 1 1/2 inch groups with either one you are done, odds are you probably will.
Now next time you go try a little more powder till you get to max, and fool with your cartridge overall length to see if you can make any accuracy improvements.

Burropacker,

Going back to the "how many per load" question, that's a tough one. It is probably different for different applications. For example, the benchrest crowd goes by the average of five groups of five shots each. They are trying to determine which is more accurate, by .1" or less. They have "the powder", and "the bullet", and all they are playing with is charge weight, neck tenstion, and maybe seating depth.

I would not recommend that approach for development with a 340 WBY

Somewhere along the process, the Speer folks determined that 7 shots was the best compromise between confidence in the results and economy. For hunting rifles, I would go with that. With one exception. If you get a three shot group which is clearly already "unacceptable", I would not shoot the other four. Just take them home, disassemble them, resize the necks, and "do-over".

Also, I early in the process I use fewer shots than later. When progressing through the charges, you start "seeing" the nodes quickly, even with three shot groups. With a little experience, you can then focus in on those velocities where your barrel is in tune. Once you are "close", it takes many more shots to find the middle of those nodes and create stable loads. For many of my hunting rifles, I never go that far, as "close enough is close enough" in my type of hunting. HTH, Dutch.

Thanks for all the input. This is good stuff. I also found a couple of pages on load development procedures in the latest Barnes Manual.

This board is a great resource!

Burropacker. Use the Incremental Load development Method. I can provide you with more information if you wish. Basically, load one of each from lowest to highest, with (generally) .3 grains difference. You are looking for "clustering" which will tell you that at that point, the gun is insensitive to small changes in powder. Then load say 5 rounds at the middle of that range. Shoot at 200 yards. You should have a clear idea of what your standard for acceptability is. Shoot genuine groups,none of this "if I do my part crap". The proof is on the target.
Peter.

FOR ALL YOU NEWBIES; I would recommend the Sierra Rifle Reloading Manual as it lists accuracy loads as well as max and hunting loads. It has always given me a really good starting point and often I don't have to experament. derf

I would never try Riccadellies method. Buying and shooting over three boxes of Nosler Partitions and more than a can of Varget isn't the most realistic method to finding a load that will work for you. GateHouse is right, this is a bit overboard for finding a good hunting load. One hole groups aren't needed for hunting deer inside 500 yards. With a 140 gr. Partition, the 7-08 is limited to about 400 yards of bullet expansion (2000 fps). 1.5" groups will get you your deer everytime.

Since this will be a hunting load, you will be wanting to go for a load close to the potential of the 7mm-08. A 140 gr. @ 2700-2850 fps is what you will want. I'd find the MAX load for Varget from a number of manuals, then reduce this by 5%. Load up three rounds at each .5 grain increment, with a seating depth .020" off the lands, or if this won't fit in your magazine, then as long as it will allow. Start shooting the lowest charge, and work up, recording accuracy at the diff. charges. Stop when you hit your goal speed (chrony is very valuable here), or you hit the MAX (if there is no pressure signs). If you find the speed you want (ie 2800 fps), you can keep that powder charge, and load a few at a deeper seating depth, and some closer to the lands. You should be able to find a good shooting load that makes good speed as well. Good luck.

[ 06-26-2003, 09:40: Message edited by: todbartell ]

You've gotten a lot of good advice here. Just remember that different people are trying for different goals. E.g. some are trying for an accurate hunting load (accurate at high velocity) while others are trying for an accurate load for its own sake regardless of velocity.

I only load for hunting so here's what I do, with examples from a couple of cartridges I've worked with.

I take all the manuals and read their writeups, along with articles by trusted authors -- if every single manual, plus a John Barsness article in Handloader, tells me that RL-15 is the best choice for accuracy and good velocity using 165-gr. bullets in the .300 Savage, I will take that as a clue. If there are a couple that show up well I will try both -- e.g., H4831 and H4350 in the .280 Rem.

I usually know which bullet, or at least bullet weight, I will want to hunt with. For the .280 I really wanted to shoot the 139-gr. Hornady and the 150-gr. Partition. (I started with 154-gr. Hornadys as a stand-in for Partitions.) For the .300 Savage I want to use 165-gr. Partitions, again starting with Hornady for a stand-in.

If I'm really starting from scratch on a given rifle, I may try some other bullets for fun -- e.g. in the .280 I tried the 145-gr. Speer and 150-gr. Matchking. I use a Stoney Point tool and start out .030" off the lands, assuming that isn't too long to work in the action.

I usually only drop 3 or 4 gr. below book maximum loads -- especially if all manuals list similar max loads. If there's more of a spread, I make sure I'm below the lowest max.

Normally I load 3 rounds at each powder charge. However, if I'm pretty confident in my bullet and powder choice, I may load 6 at each of the highest levels and may add some 0.5 gr. increments as well. (If I also have to mount a scope, I'll load a few extra rounds with the starting load to make sure I'm on the paper.) For instance, maximum charge of RL-15 under a 165-gr. Hornady in the .300 Savage is 42.7 gr. and Barsness said 42.0 gr. had worked in 3 of his rifles using the Partition. I loaded 9 rounds at 40.5 gr. to allow for scope adjustment, and 6 each at 41.5, 42.0 and 42.5.

I go to the range and start shooting over the chronograph. When I hit the velocity that the manuals show as maximum with that bullet and powder, I stop. I've tried different methods but now believe that velocity is the best indicator of pressure, and easiest to use.

Ideally, everything will come together on the first try. With the .300 Savage, groups started at 2.5", closed up to about 1.6" with the 42.0 gr. charge a little under 2600 fps shown in the Hornady manual, then opened up with the 42.5 gr. charge. Bingo, 42.0 should be it for this rifle.

For example, in my .338 Win. Mag. I tried RL-22 with the 225-gr. Hornady (as a stand-in for the 230-gr. Fail Safe). The Alliant and Lyman manuals both show 77.0 gr. as maximum; Alliant shows 2790 fps and Lyman shows 2747 fps. I started at 75.0 gr. and got well over 2800 fps. Velocity dropped at 76.0 gr. Hmmm. Next trip I started at 74.0 gr. and 74.5. Both were really accurate and 74.5 gr. averaged 2780 fps. Good enough. I went home and pulled the bullets from the 75-77 gr. charges.

If I'm getting substandard accuracy or velocity, and I know there's nothing wrong with the rifle, I'll try other powders, usually something faster or slower. For instance, my .280 was accurate with H4831SC and with H4350 but velocities were 200 fps short of where they should have been. So I tried RL-22, which gave exactly the results expected from the books.

If I get really frustrated or am working with an expensive bullet, I pack everything up, get to the range early, and clamp a spare press to one of the tables. This way I can fiddle with seating depth, switch primers, etc. I did this with the 150-gr. Partitions in the .280 -- when my initial tests showed poor accuracy compared to either weight of Hornady, I set up at the range and within a couple hours tried 3 kinds of primers and several seating depths. Nothing helped, so I just concluded that bullet doesn't work well in that particular rifle. And I didn't spend dozens of bullets and days of drive time to figure it out.

John

Theres a method of load developement called OCW (Optimal Charge Weight) that I will use for my next load project. Its actually a modified Audette method. This method just makes sense to me. Its very logical.

Go here and give it a try.
Optimal Charge Weight Load Development

The OCW (Optimal Charge Weight) method saves a lot of time. I have used it. Check for pressure as powder weight is increasing. It is very important to keep good records for wind and other and variables (case sizing, neck tension, etc). good records save a lot of re-work; studying the results can give you clues.
Ron