My cousin and I were talking about this today. He was wondering if there was an unbiased (not from the Manufacturers adds) list of the cleanest burning powders. So does one line or brand burn cleaner acrossed the board? As a follow along question what are the cleanest burning powders you have used? Thanks for any answers. Sean

Has anyone tried H1000? I have and I can't get the black stuff off of the necks! Never seen anything like it.

My understanding is that that is a sign of a load that doesn't create enough pressure to fully expand the case neck to seal off the chamber. Sean

I have NEVER SEEN any kind of list showing clean vs dirty powders. I think most smokeless powders burn cleaner at high pressures, but some kinds of ball powders (particulary the early WW powders, like 760BR, etc.) seem dirtier than extruded powders. It has something to do with the deterrent coatings.

Lone Eagle,

If your talking to me the rifle is a 264 WM and the load got the 140 gr MK out at 3150 fps! I agree that light loads will smoke up a neck and even more down the shoulder and maybe the case body.

This load is not light! I have not fired this rifle again as it's not grouping well and I have many others. I was fishing for some specific feedback on H1000 however.

Well, I experiment a LOT, and have tried most brands of powders I can get my hands on. In my opinion, clearly, the cleanest burning brand of powders are those produced by Vihtavuori.

R F

Like eldeguello was saying, it depends upon how they are made. Besides additives and coatings, the cellulose from which the powder is made has a large bearing on the cleanliness of the powder.
Someone (I wish I could remember who) pointed out that in WWII, the US was getting their cellulose from wood pulp while the German were using cotton. German powder was far cleaner than American. But the Germans went wanting for clothing while the Americans had plenty. Some trade-off, huh?

And, as another poster alluded to...it also depends on how the powders are used.

Each powder has a temp/pressure range within which it burns properly. Below that level of temperature and pressure, almost evey powder will burn "dirty" or even "filthy". There simply isn't enough pressure and heat to burn the powder and its additives thoroughly.

A good example of that is VV-N135. It is a tad "slow" for the .30-BR case. With 29.5 grs.of N-135 behind a 215 gr. cast bullet you can get from 2,000 to 2,200 fps from the .30-BR, depending on the particular barrel. But, it WILL burn dirty...very dirty. It is cleaner than either IMR4895 or H4895 with the same bullet and charge, but it is still dirty.

Switching to VV-N133 with the same bullet and a slightly smaller charge, you get a clean burn. If you use the N-135 in a slightly larger case like the .308 Win., and use more of it, you can have a pressure vessel/propellant relationship where the N-135 also burns cleanly.

But, 133 is enough faster than 135, that it is a bit too fast for max velocity with the 215 gr. bullet from the .30-BR case. So, a shooter sometimes has to choose between two good things: either best performance for his specific purpose, or cleanliness. A VV-134 is really what would be perfect for the .30 BR with 215 gr. bullets, if such a critter existed. (As a CB benchrest competitor, I chose to use the 135. I can clean my cases, which I have to do if I use the N135, but I don't like that extra time of flight exposing my bullets longer to the vagaries of the wind in competetion at 200 yards, which I get if I use N133.)

I agree VV is a good clean burning powder. I think maybe that is at least partly because there are so many burning rates of VV available, you can match the burn rate to the cartridge capacity/bullet weight rather closely, and get it up to the proper pressure to enable it to burn cleanly.

That, of course, is the key for clean powder burning in any cartridge. From the available powders, pick the one in which the burn rate and designed pressure/heat "burn window" best matches your case and bullet weight.

In the 1930's, powder companies used to make the heat/pressure windows for their powders available. Maybe we should begin requesting that info from them again....

AC

[ 04-28-2003, 23:38: Message edited by: Alberta Canuck ]

Of the powders I've used, the IMR line (4064, 4350, 4831 & 7828) seems to burn cleaner than the others. Hodgdon (H4831sc & H1000) also tends to be pretty clean.

The dirtiest powder I've used is RL22. It takes more time and patches to get it all out of my barrels.

Can't speak about rifle powders as they seem to be pretty much the same to me, but SOLO 1000 is the cleanest burning powder I've ever loaded in my 45's.