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| <jagtip> |
BUY A MANUAL!!!!!READ IT!!!!!!TOO CHEAP/SORRY/LAZY/DUMB TO DO THAT??????FIND ANOTHER HOBBY. | ||
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| one of us |
I wouldn't have put it that way (would have used a few lower-case letters), but EXCELLENT ADVICE!! | |||
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| <TimB99> |
The NRA also offers classes in relaoding. Victor, I too am a newbie to reloading and have the added advantage that a close friend is an NRA certified rifle reloading instructor. He's conducting a class this spring and I plan to be there. The NRA website has a listing by area of reloading certified instructors. | ||
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| <VictorMiami> |
Good suggestion. Thank you for that. I'll look it up and see if they've got anything down here. | ||
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| <bigcountry> |
I thought the internet was supposed be a great source of information also??????????? I have bought a few manuels but there are a bunch of tricks that the manuels don't cover and I have been thru alot of them. If you can't ask questions and exchange ideas, then what is the use of having this page. Thinking about it, why am I on this computer, I should be shootin, not typin. | ||
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Moderator |
The point made by the post was spot on, though the presentation was wanting. Perhaps a better wording would be thus: Those new reloaders that seem unwilling to pay for a reloading manual, or rather don't bother reading one, might just not have the necessary care to assemble safe ammunition. Additionally, reading a few reloading manuals will answer many of the basic questions, as well as provide a good back ground for understanding many of the answers and posts seen here. I don't know what thread precipitated this one, but I've long considered making the above post. | |||
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| one of us |
YES I agree read the book get some understanding . than start to ask questions . not only will you gain some knowledge on reloading. but you will understand the answers the folks give you . Bob Reed ------------------ | |||
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| <jagtip> |
VictorMiami.....So terribly sorry that I may have offended you.Now I will try to be a bit more diplomatic.If you're so stupid that you don't have the sense to pick up a manual and read it,then you shouldn't even be handling powder and primers.Hows that???? | ||
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| <Powderman> |
Victor: Welcome to the reloading bench. Your comments are right on--remember, most reloading manuals are written to take the average person who is just getting started, and start them down the right path. I heartily recommend buying more than one manual, because each one has its own special inclusion, all to the benefit of the reloader. I recommend the following three to start with: 1. The Speer manual. Well-explained instructions, plus identifiable loads for gas guns are included. Disadvantage: Fairly limited load information. 2. The Hornady manual set. The well-written ballistic tables are worth the price. Disadvantage--you have to buy two books. 3. Nosler #4. Possibly the best combination of the two; identifying the most accurate loads in the caliber, and most accurate for the bullet weight--at least out of their pressure barrels, and from their guns. Take your time, learn, and load up! Personal advice: Avoid the max loads whenever possible. I have found that the most accurate loads are usually below the max loads. And, to the others on this post: What is going on? In the time I have been here at Accurate Reloading, I have not seen an attack on a person interested in learning like the one here. I had over 300 posts before the server crash, and a bit over 200 now. I haven't seen a personal attack like this one yet! Gentlemen, we should concentrate on welcoming others, and passing on what we know, and learning what we don't know. Let's leave the barbs for the other sites, okay? ------------------ | ||
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| <jagtip> |
Powderman.....I have no beef with you.Let me explain where I'm coming from.In the first place,I opened this thread with no particular person in mind.This fellow obviously thought I was focusing on him.I wasn't but so be it.Apparently,what I posted applied to him and he therefore took personal offense.....I'm frankly tired of people who pipe into this site with the expectation of being spoon-fed.If a person is sincere in their interest on this subject,they will make an effort to read at least a portion of the info that is out there.When a person seeks advice in a technical craft like this,they should at least show the rest of us the courtesy of reading a little bit beforehand.Some of the people who tap into this site remind me of welfare bums.Many of the questions asked make it all too clear that they haven't so much as spent 5 minutes looking within a loading manual.These are the people that irk me to no end.They basically have decided that they don't need to spend the few bucks on a manual because they can pipe in here and "mooch"instead.In my opinion,posters like that are nothing more than bums.They deserve no respect and they get none from me.I stand by my statement and offer no apologies to anyone for this.Someone with "zero"knowledge on the subject should be told to read a good manual and then come back with questions afterwards. | ||
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| <TGWoody> |
Powderman and ALL I'm going to make a statement! I agree, ,, this site has been a great place to expand our knowledge. There is a vast amount of experience within this forum, I have many manuals but most of them leave out some facts or are incomplete in some areas, this forum is great for feeling in the gaps and learning the tricks of the trade. Plus it's just a great place to interact with others. The search command within this forum is a great tool for research on past topics. It's great to hear advise from so many.
Saeed wrote: We try to run this site on the same principles. By keeping it open to all our friends from all parts of the world. Makes us all feel part of wonderful hunting and shooting community, which has no boundaries." NOW - THAT'S COOL! THANKS TO ALL THE "MENTORS" TGW | ||
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| <Chainsaw> |
jagtip, I do at times share your frustration, and don't know your age, but if your on the south end of 40 I would guess that may be about close to the average age of people that "know" reloading, maybe older. I am very close to the 5-0 right now and most of my reloading buddies are close to this age. We are a dieing breed. If we don't encourage "youngins" to pick up this torch, the critters in Washington will more easily get their way, as they are just waiting around for guys like you and me to die off along with our "craft". Though my friend I do get discouraged by some of the posts, we do have the choice to ignore them and move to another. I am starting to work with my son and son-in-law to teach them a lifetime of trial and error that it took me 30 years to figure out. Maybe we should make a forum up of FAQ that newcomers could look at to see if relaoding is for them. Better yet start a reloading "seminar" in our perspective areas for those that might be interested. ------------------ | ||
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one of us |
quote: Jagtip, Easy, brother. Remember the trolls just want to get you to flame! Hell, i had one the other day that sent me an e-mail and flamed me because of my signature on this BB?!?! I guess we are not supposed to be proud of our country anymore..... mike ------------------ America, Love it or LEAVE IT! | |||
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| <jagtip> |
Chainsaw and Magnum.....I appreciate your views and yes,I do indeed let my irish temper get the best of me at times.Perhaps I should count to ten on occasion before letting off steam and there are certainly times I could show a bit more tact.....However,I will never retract nor apologise for what I've said.It's the truth and I'll stand by it.Anyone too cheap to buy a manual but then expects others to spoon feed them,is nothing more than a freeloading bum.Anyone not interested enough to buy a manual is not interested enough to reload....period.I was young when I started in the sixty's and no one had to pamper me along.Neither did I expect them to.I knew that I had much to learn(through reading) and I did.Anyone not willing to do that should find something else to do. | ||
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| <songdog_sniper> |
he is probably refering t me big deal. i have the speer manual,lymans and lee, the problem i was having i could not either one figure it out by using the manual or two wasn't in the manual. the problem turned out to be a bad hornady die. but thanks for the advice | ||
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| one of us |
Much of the knowledge I have acquired was learned the hard way. Fortunately, I had some people willing to teach me even when I would have lost patience if I were them. This forum allows everyone of all skill abilities to ask even the most basic of questions. Any time we disrespect someone for asking a question, we have probably lost an ally. Through Saeed's kind generosity, we have a place to share ideas and information. There is a time to be forceful and a time to wear kid gloves. When a thread starts rude, it generally degrades. | |||
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one of us |
quote: Dont worry mate, I have manuals coming out my ears and I dont think they would of helped either,keep at it! | |||
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| one of us |
Seems awful simple to me. If a body doesn't like to deal with newbie foolishness- then don't. Ranting about it only turns potential handloaders off even more. This hobby needs new blood. Patience and diligence are a couple hallmarks of good handloaders-- use the same on the newbies. | |||
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| <bigcountry> |
Aladin, I agree totally. With all the people out there who hate our sport, it's no time to be turning away people. If we don't stick together, in the wake of recent tragedies, then the time for buying our powder, primers, might come to an end. I just have never been big on self designated internet police. If I think a topic is stupid, I just don't read it. It is hard for some people to keep their blinders on. Living in Eastern Kentucky, I had no friends that reloaded and really didn't even know the makers of reloading gear. There ain't even a place to buy reloading manuels. So the internet got me started. RCBS, Hell, I thought was a radio station. Unlike others belief, nobody was born with this information. I would say 90% of them was started by a freind. I don't mind taking a few minutes of my time to tell a newbie a little. Alot of people just want to know little things before buying a manual. Like how long does it take to load 50 44 mag shells. Like things the manuel don't tell, like I think a kinetic hammer is a complete waste. They show them working on one swing in the manuels. Or I think a powder trickler is a definate have to have item. To the rich yuppie, 15 dollars may be a drop in the bucket, but wasted 15 dollars to a hard working coal miner is a week of lunchs. And to the 60 hour working miner, he has to use his time effectively and pick his hobbies carefully unlike the maybe retired or 40 hour working yuppy, or a regular guy that has good job that schedules his time efficently. Any way it goes, I am new enough of a reloader to remember what it was like starting out with no informtion at all. The old reloaders probably think these questions are stupid but at one time in there hobby, I bet it wasn't so "intuitively obvious to the casuel observer". And if they had the internet then, I bet they would have beat the keys out of a keyboard getting information. | ||
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| <VictorMiami> |
I thought, and still think, that the advice to read up in manuals is great. I didn't know there'd be so much in there, and I'm sure most newbies don't know it either. I just take issue with the way you said it, jag. I don't think it applies to me, or even to most of the newbies that check in here, though maybe I'm wrong. Aladin and Bigcountry have pretty much said all I want to say. That's it. [This message has been edited by VictorMiami (edited 12-19-2001).] | ||
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| <TimB99> |
Here's a web link with the name of NRA reloading instructors. http://www.reload-nrma.com/NRAinstruc.html Hope there's one near you. I plan to make the best use of this resource. Neat! Bob Hodgdon is one of the instructors in my neighborhood! tim | ||
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| one of us |
To those voices preaching a bit of forbearance, I would like to add that it is a sign of the times. If you want info, go to the net. Reading a book is as alien to the under 30's as space travel to us over 60's. I think the point could have been made with a great deal more circumspection and encouragement and been a positive thing. but....... Jagtip, as far as you bending your stiff neck and apoligizing for your boorish tongue, I speak only for myself when I say that I don't give a shit if you apologize or not.  Your post is kinda like a pothole in the road. You steer around them and pay them as little mind as possible. | |||
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one of us |
I tend to go out of my way to help newbies. I had a mentor the first time, but mentors are getting to be few and far between. Like Mike said, we need all the new blood we can get. Seriously, though, how often do you think someone gets a press from an uncle or neighbor, and then decides to put some ammo together? A trip to the gun store, a box of cheap bullets, the cheapest primers, an IMR booklet, and a can of 4350, and PRESTO, CHANGO, a reloader is born. How is he supposed to know there's a manual to be read first? He already paged through the IMR booklet! It's EASY! Besides, in this day and age, a $5 dollar watch comes with a 50 page instruction booklet. If we are honest, we would admit that the standard procedure in our world is "if all else fails, consult the manual". And if you are honest, you know that you do things the same way. It's our job to point out that this NOT standard operating procedure for building little pipe bombs that go off 5 inches from your eye........ JMO, Dutch. | |||
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| <goneballistic> |
bigcountry, What do you smack with your kinetic hammer? Smacking the endgrain on a 4x4 gives the best results. I'm not saying every bullet pulled will pop out in one blow, but all but the most tightly crimped loads should pull in 2 or 3 smart wacks. Used properly, a kinetic puller is a good tool to have. Also, if you need to pull tar sealed milsurp, you need to break the seal with your seating die before pulling. If you know all this already, keep in mind I don't know your experience level. Good shooting! | ||
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| <Hutt> |
Must have teens in the house. | ||
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| <bigcountry> |
David M, I usually smack concrete. It works with some of my loads/Dies but not all. Probably got a 270 sizer die that is a little tight which will make it difficult to extract. I believe ya, alot of people swear by them. And it works well with my 300RUM, but I need it alot with my 270 and 06 loads. | ||
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| one of us |
A little patience goes a long ways, jagtip, Irish temper or no. Dutch, I believe you said,
quote: Well said. Mentors are extremely hard to come by. You can't find a reloader just around the block from your house. Some reloaders starting out don't know anyone else who reloads...and come here for the info. Many others know reloaders, but everyone's caught up in the rat-race, so they don't have the time or patience to teach a newbie the ropes. In any endeavor of life, I've appreciated the times a mentor was there to teach me or stand up for me when an "old pro" couldn't stand my "rookieness" anymore. I appreciate them because because people with that kind of patience, tact, and time to share are a rare commodity Another poster mentioned that reading books is to the under 30's people what space travel is to the over 60's. Truer words could not be spoken. If the young are to carry the torch, then we'd best get used to the fact they're going to use the 'Net as their primary means of reading and research. That means putting up with a lot of newbie questions that sound elemntary and basic to the established reloader. TXLoader | |||
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| one of us |
quote: Maybe so. Maybe the young also ought to learn to read books. Not to get too deep into legal aspects that piss us all off, but there is sometimes a little more responsibility shown by authors of books than authors of internet postings. Enough posting, though. I have to go make up some 12 ga. buckshot loads for nyati. Anyone know where I can get some depleted uranium cheap? | |||
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