Hi I thought I'd start a new topic on this one from the blownup gun thread.
Pondercat, I was using win296 in my loads, win brass, and some 45-70 405's sized down to .452". I extrapolated some load data from published 300 and 350's, started 2gns below my guess and worked up from there. I didn't get sticky extraction until around 1400fps. The top loads that went 1550 were alittle stiff to extract and were definatly over pressure. None of the loads stabilized the bullets, I think this is due to the rifleing twist rate. I've heard that Ruger uses a different twist and will stabilize the 405's. The recoil at 1550 was stiff, but manageable with the porting.

Lar,

I was reading your posts, as well as the others, on that subject. Very interesting.

I do not load my bull extremely hot. I load for a given point of impact at a given range, for competition. My hottest is usually a 250 @ 1450. Not too hot.

I have noticed some things:

I full-length size each time, and trim each time. I can get away with not trimming for one reload, but not for two. I tried partial sizingm, but that led to extraction problems.

Also, after about 8 reloads the primer pockets are history. But by that time I start getting splits on the mouth. I have one batch that made it through 9 reloads, the split mouth cases were thrown away. The primer pocket is so loose you could poke it in with your thumb. I use them for dummy rounds, etc.

All of this with starline brass. Longbob inherited all my win brass, and I have a set of 20 hornady's with 2 firings on them. I am saving them for a hot set of hunting rounds.

Just felt like adding this.

Lars45 - I actually did about two hours of math to get my starting load and it turned out pretty close to my figures. What gave me 1326fps was Lil'gun. The same charge in H110 gave me 1250fps. So with you getting sticky extraction at 1400 maybe I'm right about where I should be with this load. As far as the bullet stabilizing I have no problems. Accuracy with most of the loads seems OK, but so far I've been restricted to 25 yards. Plan on going to 50 when I actually go test accuracy next time out.
The results that you got that you got with your revolver is probably pretty close to the same loads I was using in that Browning Hiwall. I had Brass failure beginning, starting at around 1700 fps.

ScottB - Maybe it is the Starline brass. I don't know if you read my post on the gun blowing up thread but I had a problem with Starline brass stretching as well. Problem was I didn't catch it until I had problems.

What do you think about that Lars45? I see that winchester brass is what you were using with your hot loads that didn't stretch. I could not duplicate my problems in the PUMA with Winchester brass. Wonder whats up. I have heard from another source(gun shop owner) that .454 brass doesn't hold up well for him after three firings of full power loads, and two if the loads are hotter. Wonder if he was using Starline as well. That don't figure though 'cause Starline has always been tops and my first choice. Seems like any of the brass should hold up well though, for moderate to low power load. PC

[ 12-28-2002, 08:06: Message edited by: pondercat ]

the only real extreme pressure loads I've run through my Raging bull was with the 405's. Mostly I run 300 Lazer cast or 320LFN's around 1600. I've been working on the same win cases for the past year with no problems. I don't know what I'm doing wrong or right. I picked up some surplus powder and I'm about to start load workups with WC820. I thought I'd start with the 454 since it should have more of a pressure safety zone incase I start in the wrong place. I was going to order a bunch of Starline brass since I've only heard good things about it until now. I'll try and keep good records on number of reloads and case length. I'll probably search for max pressure and velocity for info with the powder. I think I'll order a hundred rounds of starline brass and see how the life compares with my winchester cases. It's interesting that you didn't run into problems in your Puma with win cases.

I've been using Starline lately, but Win before that which is still good just haven't used it for a while. I've only got 2 or 3 loads on the SL brass so far, have not had problems with either so far.

Pondercat, you don't have excessive headspace in that rifle do you? The cases were INDEED long, but that full head seperation looks classic.

I'm shootin 310gr hardcasts at an honest 1500fps out of my short RB. That's as fast as they get with 296 or H110. I have some Lil'Gun but haven't tried it yet, my brother shoots it sometimes in his 475LB but says it's dirty as hell.

I put 405 gr .458" bullets in Win 45 Colt brass with CCI200 primers and 40 gr of H110.
This was in a very beefy .410.
Don't try that in your revolver, its too long anyway. Even with a hammer, I could only get the OAL down to 2.6".
It shoots ok.
The .395" choke was ok.
The brass gets beat up from the poor chamber fit.

So Clark. Did you really do that or are you just funnin' us. Were you trying to blow that gun up? Cripes, that's scary to think about. 40 grains would just about completely fill the case. So is your hammer press a Stanley or a Craftsman? I think the Craftsman 32 oz framing press is about the best. Puts a nice waffle pattern on the meplat too.

Yeah, I did that and allot more to that .410.
I did a stress analysis on a handi rifle 45/70, so when I saw the .410 was over built the same way, I got it for $50 for destructive test.
Looking at the notes, I can't tell if it was 2.6 or 2.1" that it pounded down to. The only thing that really hurt the gun was 45.5 gr H110 and 230 gr .452" Montana Gold FMJ split the .385" choke back to the front sight hole. The Silver bead was lost and the choke is now .395".