Best way to get an accurate consistent powder charge; weight each charge or powder measurer(volume measure)? Most scales offer + or - 0.01 grain. I need better than that, but do not want to pay $900 or more for a scale. Really we all just want consistency powder charge to powder charge (+ or - 0.01 gr) am I asking for too much? I want loads that give me + or - 10 feet per second over 20 rounds. Can you get consistent bullet speed? Whats the best way to get consistent bullet speed. I find if I get consistent bullet speed, I get bullets in the same hole.

Use a fine ball powder.

I have seen a SD of as low as 7fps and I will settle for 30fps or so.

For fairly close shooting SD doesn't matter to much.

Most manufacturers quote an accuracy of +/- 0.1 grain.

Yes, you are asking too much. 1/10TH of a grain will not effect accuracy as much you think it will.
I have been shooting long range every weekend for the last 30 years in the club I run. We shoot from 200 to 1,000 yards with open sights and optics.
With all of the other factors that come into play, such as case prep, primer choice, bullet diameter and seating depth,as well as crimping force, a small fraction of a grain does not effect accuracy in a way that you could measure to a standard for every shot taken.
There are countless recordings of Standard Deviation that look so poor but the accuracy was amazing on paper.
Case charge density plays a much larger role as to how it lies in the case shot to shot.
In the last century Col.Hatcher and Dr.Mann spent most of their adult lives doing nothing by shooting and recording the results.
If you really want to know what really effects accuracy read their books.
Hatchers Note Book and Dr.Mann's A Bullets Flight....
There is a wealth of info in them that you can put into practical use at the range.

$900 for a scale? What kind of scale are you contemplating. I haven't priced scales in years but I would guess you can buy a balance beam for less than $100.

Dave

A pound is 7000 grains 10th of a grain is 70,000ths of pound a 100th of a grain is 700,000 of a pound.

Fairly small numbers.

your gonna need to scale out your cases too.

Uhhh . . . without a scale you have no way of setting a powder measure. One of the first purchases for successful handloading is a simple balance beam scale (many are available for $50 or less.) Or, buy an electronic scale if you have a hermetically sealed room in which to use it with constant humidity where there are no other electrical appliances, no air drafts, and you can hold your breath when closer than three feet to it.

Absolutely consistent powder weights have little to do with velocity spreads. Shot to shot velocity variation has more to do with the type of powder, and other considerations such as how closely it fills the case, not to mention the variables that primers can cause. And although low velocity variations are generally helpful to accuracy, even loads which exhibit significant velocity spreads can be very accurate.

Bottom lines:

(1) The load itself is more important to consistent velocities than the precision with which powder is dispensed.

(2) Coarse stick powder almost necessarily needs to be weighed since it meters rather inconsistently through a conventional powder measure.

(3) Ball powders will meter just as accurately as they can be weighed, so metering them works fine.

Oh, and (4) Those fancy electronic/automatic metering scales will run you crazy and won't be any faster or more accurate than you can do it by hand.

I use Lee dippers.

I used to use an RCBS 505 scale but have upgraded to an RCBS 10/10 and have thrown charges that put velocity at less than 5 ft/sec deviation in my 338RUM. Most rounds were right on the money at 2860 ft/sec in that rifle with speed measured with a chronograph. That is the only rifle and cartridge that I could hold that close in speed, and though it was extremely accurate I have shot other rifles and cartridges that were just as accurate even though they weren't that close together in velocity. Also, powder charges aren't the only thing that contributes to velocity, such as how the barrel steel reacts to heat up, and also wind conditions, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by rcraig:
I use Lee dippers.

quote:

Originally posted by rcraig:
I use Lee dippers.

I use them to put powder in my scale pan.

Exact powder charges are not a guarantee of less velocity variations.

In fact, some of the very large magnum cases might even give you LESS velocity for a charge of up to 2 grains more.

quote:

posted 10 January 2021 20:27Hide Post
I use Lee dippers

I do to. to get powder out of the bottle. but never for weight

it also has a lot to do with the size cartage you are loading. 2 tenths in a 223 very little difference, 2 tenths in a 30-06 never know the difference, .50 grain in 7 mag never know the difference

quote:

Originally posted by nopride2:
$900 for a scale? What kind of scale are you contemplating. I haven't priced scales in years but I would guess you can buy a balance beam for less than $100.

Dave

That new RCBS Digital scale they released last year or so is around $900. RCBS is trying to market it to average reloader. Ridiculously expensive. I don't know that much about it, after I saw the price tag I saw no sense in it.

As others have said, powder weight isn't the only thing that affect SD and ES.
Neck tension, ie; inconsistent neck thickness, has something to do with it too....along with the things mentioned above.

Zeke

Thanks guys for all the input. I guess I asked a general question to a specific application, so got may answers that don't apply. Yes, that new RCBS MatchMaster scales accurate to 0.04 grains and is $900. A bit more that I want to spend. Analytical balances (I used for many years in a lab I worked in) are accurate to 0.0001 grams (0.0015 grains). They run $1500 to $15,000. FYI. But what I am working on is loading 10.1 grains of H110 or 12.0 grains of RL-7 over a 240 grain SMK. So, I can see speed variations and low/high impact points variations with a 0.10 grain powder charge difference. That is a 1% charge difference. Bullet speeds are around 1060 ft/sec. If I get 1100 ft/sec, two inches high, if I get 1030 ft/sec, 2 inches low. 900 ft/sec and 10 inches low, all at 100 yards. Sure I try my best to remove other variables; using same case, same primer, seat bullet to same COL. I spend most my time working with the brass, etc. Sure I have Lee powder dippers, beam balances, digital scales. But all only go to 0.10 grain. All the reloading books publish charges to XX.1 grains, but most scales can not hold to a XX.10 grain charge. Don't get me wrong, on a good day I can hold most rounds in 1" group at 100 yards, but get a flyer now and again. I just think it may be the powder charge being off 0.10 grains and would like to hold it to 0.01 grains to see if I am right. I guess to do that, I need to either get a precision machined powder measure like the Neil Jones Culver-type and/or a scale that can hold to 0.0015 grains to prove my theory either way.

Yes I have started reloading for 3000blk and suddenly I have to care about 0,1 grain. I load H110 in supersonic loads and its difficult to find great loads at decent speed, I dont want to loose 200fps (10% speed) for a more accurate load with a different powder.

Many of the best bench rest shooters do not weigh every charge. Once they have a setting on their powder measure they may click it up or down between matches for weather conditions. But absolute accurate powder weights are not that necessary for absolute accuracy.

All good info, Thanks.

quote:

So, I can see speed variations and low/high impact points variations with a 0.10 grain powder charge difference. That is a 1% charge difference. Bullet speeds are around 1060 ft/sec. If I get 1100 ft/sec, two inches high, if I get 1030 ft/sec, 2 inches low. 900 ft/sec and 10 inches low, all at 100 yards.

That sounds like a .44 handgun. If it is a handgun, then the shot displacement is your imagination, because it is the opposite of what actually happens when velocities vary in a handgun.

Faster velocities with the same bullet/powder almost always strike LOWER on the target. This is because of less barrel time. The longer the bullet is in the barrel the higher the muzzle is when the bullet clears it due to the axial recoil of the handgun. Thus a slower bullet is released at a higher point and a faster bullet is released at a lower point.

You can prove this by placing a handgun on a firm rest which supports only the bottom of the grip. This substantially reduces the axial movement of the gun from recoil. The bullet will strike lower on the target than if rested on the barrel/frame, or if fired free-hand.

In other words, you're chasing a ghost when blaming the kind of velocity spreads you speak of for higher/lower strikes on the target.

Back in the day, the old benchresters I shot with loaded with a powder measure and slow burning powders such as H4831 and 4350 DATA, and IMRs..never weighed a charge..

Today I will use H414, RL-15,22,17, and most ball powders with my old powder measure, and don't weigh charges, at best I give them a glance and my guns shoot 1/2 to one inch or they go to the gun show..the secret to a powder measure is use a good consistant one then "you" toss the loads with consistancy..Ive won money on this subject as my oponent pulled his hair out at my consistency with the measure and not the use of a scale. I can be done, but its a learning process I suppose, been doing it for 60 plus years.