hello all, after reading about the 450 ackley mag, i am wondering if it is " IMPROVED" or just necked up. at 2400 fps with 500 gns, i was wondering if anybody has any experience with 400 gn hardcast. if so please share! i would like to learn more about this big bore. thanks halfbreed

------------------
overkill? how much more dead, is dead, than dead?

It actually looks like it has an improved shoulder, although not much of one. I haven't tried the hardcast in mine, so I don't know how they will work. I'm planning on it for practice, just have to get the right mold. - Dan

dan, thanks to the quick response, i am interested in these big bores, however i have no experience with any of them. however i am planning on getting one built. i mostly plan on shooting cast. problem is which one? i have also thought about the 450 rigby, i would likle to be able to shoot long distance (paper) with these, also some big moose,etc at reasonable ranges. thanks again for the quick reply. halfbreed

------------------
overkill? how much more dead, is dead, than dead?

Halfbreed the .450 Ackley is as improved as you can get with that case.

------------------
NRA Life member

Halfbreed, the other thing that comes to mind is that the 450 Ackley is about as big a case as you can easily fit in a long Rem or Win action. Once you go to 450 Rigby/Dakota etc, you really need a bigger (ie-CZ550 or magnum Mauser)action. I built mine on a P-14 Enfield, which has plenty of size (you can even go bigger) but needs a lot of work. I really like it though. FWIW - Dan

dan, i am mostly thinking about the 450 ackley. m 70, ss, syn. 26" pac nor. hoping to get roughly 2600fps w/400gn hardcast. if not probably will go the 450 rigby method. can someone set me straight on the ballistics here? or possibly somewhere to find the ballistics.thanks halfbreed

------------------
overkill? how much more dead, is dead, than dead?

I think 2500 fps with 400 gr bullets is certainly do-able. I'm not sure about 2600. So far, all I shoot in mine is the 500 gr and 465 gr. I've been thinking of trying the Rem 405's for the 45-70 just for entertainment. The 450 rigby/dakota or 460 WBY (same case but with a belt) will get you 2650-2700 fps with the 500 gr bullets and should get 2750-2800 with the 400 gr bullets. Recoil is STOUT. And again, fitting the rigby/dakota/Wby case into a model 70 is difficult at best. You shood go the Cz/Enfield/Dakota route just for ease of conversion and feeding. They're lot's of fun though. Good luck - Dan

Fist, the 450 Ackley shoulder is barely perceptable, but serves the main purpose of providing a Parallel neck for the cartridge rather than the tapered neck of the Lott/Watt. This is a big factor in improved accuracy. There may also be a slight increase in powder capacity, but not enough to matter IMHO. It would be my choice with cast bullets, however, 2600fps with a hard cast bullet will be really amazing if you can get it to work. Pure Linotype may work. I've tried paper patched bullets in this cartridge using Soft Lead with incredible expansion results but mediocre accuracy at 2000fps. Although I didn't spend much time on it.
I've built two 450 Ackleys. The first on a Rem 700 and the second on a pre-64 Mod 70 ( I posted the pictures a few weeks ago). IMHO the Mod 70 is the way to go! Slick feeding,super accuracy and a Rifle that you can carry all day long! The highly modified Rem 700 also worked well but simply does not compare to the Win.
I would not do a 450 Dakota on a Win M-70 just because it will take just too much work. You are far better off starting with a CZ-550 in .416 Rigby. Good luck-Rob

I have used the 350 Hornady in the .450 Ackley and got some pretty good velocities as I remember. I will be glad to share if I can find my data. I had mine built on a 602 action, which only required minor feeding work.

rob, thanks for the info, i do like the sound of the 450ackley in m70, it just seems to be a better set-up. i also realize the rigby needs the larger receiver. i am just hoping to get 2600 fps, with a 400 gner. if the ackley wont do that, then the rigby will be built. it just seems that all of the info is with 500gns. telley, thanks for the reply also, any info would be appreciated. especially ballistic info. with all the great info out there it seems real hard to find any ballistics beyond 100 yards. thanks halfbreed

------------------
overkill? how much more dead, is dead, than dead?

For what it's worth,one drawback of the M-70 in 450 ackley is that the COL is just slightly more(3.650) than the long magazine length of the M-70 (Mag 3.600). So you have two options, load .050 deeper with 500 gr bullets and perhaps re-cannelure the bullets if you are crimping them or open the ramp and extend the mag box ( not as trivial as it sounds). You won't have this problem with the Rem 700 as the mag box is long enough.
You don't run into these problems with the shorter 400 gr bullets, but if you load to 2400 fps you really have not gained much over a 416 Rigby and lost penetration. As you know, shooting big game with bullets going over 2400fps at close range is a big mistake. If you are going for plains game at 200 yrs or more then starting at 2600 fps makes sense. I've had a good PH who swore by 400 gr bullets in his Lott.
However,The 450 Ackley,Dakota etc. were both designed to deliver 500 gr bullets at the "magic" 2400fps at 50 yrs for maximum effect on big game and thats what they do extremely well! In theory the Dakota will do so at lower pressures than the Ackley which is an advantage in hot climates. My honest opinion is that both of these cartridges really approach the pinnacle of perfection for the hunting of really dangerous game at close range in guns that can be carried and effectively used by normal people.-Rob

Here you go halfbreed. A 458 win is on the bottom for comparison.

------------------
NRA Life member

rob, bearclaw, thanks for the good information. good pictures too. like i said early on, this rifle will see more range time than field time. drats and damnation! but i can easily see shots of 200 yds. not much more though. with all the good comments i am seeing on the rigby, that looks like the way to go. start off with the cz action and go from there. thanks guys, i do appreciate your time & knowledge in helping out a beginng big bore. halfbreed

------------------
overkill? how much more dead, is dead, than dead?

Rob
Your mention of the 500 gr bullets in the 450 Ackley as being too long for the Winchester action, does that apply to all 500 gr bullets or mainly to solid copper slugs like Barnes solids? Would solids from woodleigh be short enough to work or would the action still have to be worked over? What would be the cost of the action work?

Frankly, I have a cannelure tool from Corbin and I just put a second cannelure on my bullets and load/crimp them a little deeper. I have ebcountered this with both the Barnes and Hornady bullets and have not tried the woodleighs yet. There is precious little metal left in the front of the ramp on a pre-64 M70 long action and I was not comfortable cutting any more out. There is also very little room to remove any metal from the back. I have also seen a Win custom shop M-70 in 450 Lott and it also had the 3.600 mag and the same problem, so this tells me that Winchester also does not feel good about opening their action more than this. I suspect this is why A-Square made 486 gr. bullets in .45 caliber for the 450 Ackley/watt/lott. -Rob