Recently found this forum and it is great.

I'm a 4 year, 8,000 or so pistol reloader that has just recently started reloading 5.56 & .308. Rifle reloading definitely takes reloading to another meticulous level. I have a Dillon 550B progressive that works well for handgun rounds. I've use Varget and recently bought 8 lbs of AR-Comp for rifle rounds. Both seem to require a lot more care to get them to drop the same amount of powder when compared to handgun loads.

How many longtime rifle loaders load by weight and not by metering?

As much trouble as cleaning, sizing, trimming, etc. rifle brass is I've thought about buying a digital scale instead of using my beam scale and loading by weight. I'm mostly not using the progressive feature of my 550B, using it more like a single stage. I'll probably get a single stage in the future and dedicate it to rifle loading.

I've used my 10-10 beam scale for 30 years. I throw just a gr or two light and trickle in powder to get the weigth I want.

That said I did meter some benchrest.

The only powders I throw are those that I know meter very precisely. All others, even for handguns, get individually weighed on a beam scale.

I could afford an electronic scale; I just think that the more complex a scale is the more likely it is to break and give erroneus readings.

I meter most of all my reloads except IMR powders I weigh them. But I try and use ball powders for my rifles when ever I can.

Rifle gets weighed, pistol thrown.

I throw most rifle loads and have found a few 10ths of a grain of powder has very small effect on accuracy . If you weigh charges you are gaining nothing if you don"t weigh and sort cases. A proper load combo of powder and bullet will be very forgiving of powder charge difference of a grain or two. Bullet run out, case neck tension and,seating depth have much greater effect on group size. I do weight all loads for my double rifles do to the regulation needs of the rifle.

That said when ever possible, I avoid powders that do not throw well, like h4350 . I load mostly for accuracy, I don't throw near max loads,

JD

Dry weighing cases is a waste of time because it tels you nothing of the case. Rather fill cases with water then weigh and sort if you must.
Just my 2c.

I throw powder for 45ACP 40S&W and using WC844 I throw powder for the .223 in my wifes AR15

For all my other guns.....all turn boltsI have a more meticulous set of steps I follow including weighing charges

I have however switched to the Hornady digital powder metering unit and so far it's been great

quote:

Originally posted by brno308:
Dry weighing cases is a waste of time because it tels you nothing of the case. Rather fill cases with water then weigh and sort if you must.
Just my 2c.

I believe we are talking about powder and not casings.

Not sure what you call long time reloaders. I started in 1974.
I load several thousand rounds of rifle annually, from 22H to 45-70. I rarely weigh a charge of powder. They get thrown in 99% plus of my loads. I am however not loading to the max in my rifle loads.

P dog kindly refer to the second line of J D's post. Thank you.

Ball powder, I throw; stick powder I weigh. Rick Jamison (I think) wrote a pretty good article about weighing versus throwing. His point was what percentage of variance do you get relative to the case size and weigh of the charge. An extra grain or two of powder in a 30-06 would have little effect while a couple of grains in a .223 case could be significant.

quote:

Originally posted by deltam:

How many longtime rifle loaders load by weight and not by metering?

My experience has been that it typicaly depends on the powder since some meter prefectly and others not so well. But it also depends on the powder measure. I picked up an old belding & mull measure and it seems to throw any powder you put in it with great precision.

quote:

Originally posted by J D:
I throw most rifle loads and have found a few 10ths of a grain of powder has very small effect on accuracy . If you weigh charges you are gaining nothing if you don"t weigh and sort cases. A proper load combo of powder and bullet will be very forgiving of powder charge difference of a grain or two. Bullet run out, case neck tension and,seating depth have much greater effect on group size. I do weight all loads for my double rifles do to the regulation needs of the rifle.

That said when ever possible, I avoid powders that do not throw well, like h4350 . I load mostly for accuracy, I don't throw near max loads,

JD

+1 I only weigh IMR 4831. Everything else throws within +-.2gr and that is not going to make any difference in hunting loads. If you are shooting benchrest you need more precision, for hunting and general target shooting you can weigh if it makes you feel better but it isn't going to make any significant difference.

Exactly; it makes no difference in hunting loads, and most other applications as well. Even bench resters do not weigh powder; all the other parameters are far more important. Even coarse stick powders which do not meter well, are so slow that the variance is not important. I do weigh charges for regulation of my double rifles, like mentioned above. But not for general use. And for pistol; please; I don't have the time to weigh thousands of pistol loads even if it was beneficial, which it is not.

What brought this question to light for me was an article in "American Rifleman", the NRA magazine. Beginning on page 42, the 'technical loading bench' section was an article by John Haviland comparing measured vs weighed rounds in 3 different rifle calibers and 2 pistol calibers. In a .223, velocity at 10' had an extreme spread of 27 fps measured vs 33 weighed. Group sizes at 100 yds were average 0.83 measured and 0.36 weighed for .223. In their 30-06 test group sizes were average 1.41 measured and 1.45 weighed. The rifles used and other factors most likely will make a difference.

Seems it does make a bit of difference but not enough to be of significance for hunting.

I'm not sure I agree with their data. My reasoning is that only since the recent advent of small, battery powered scales have any of the stool shooters weighed charges. Most of them used thrown charges and quite a few relied on dippers. And their results can't be denied.
And too, getting a consistant motion with a powder despencer, even a good one, isn't something that we are born knowing. Just like using a dipper, it takes practice, practice, practice.

I weigh tubular type rifle powders, but I'm still single staging rifle.

PS. I really like AR-Comp in the 308.

I throw light and trickle up. I'd bet that good ammo could be made throwing if, and only if, you worked the measure the same each time. I have done a double bump a few times just to see what I'd get with tube powder's. Awful consistent, just bump exactly the same each time.

The weight may change with humidity, the
volume won't.

I throw a charge lighter than needed and then use my Targetmaster auto trickler with my beam scale. Consistent and I don't have to fuss with an old style trickler! "Dandy" also make this style of trickler. Available through MidwayUSA.

RCBS did a study on powder measure consistency. They had different employees use several brands of powder measures including their own. The employees in the group varied in experience from no reloading experience to lots of experience. Their finding was that as long as the measure design was capable of throwing consistent loads, your technique had very little to do with any variation so you can throw, double tap or whatever and it doesn't make any significant difference.
I never saw a progressive that double taps.

If you are going to weigh each charge , the way to do it is with a pair of the automatic set up like the RCBS charge master. I have one, If I had a second one working there would be hardly no waiting involved.

I've been reloading since 1970 and gave up weighing handgun charges a long time ago. For rifle calibers, my reloads fall into three categories:

1. Plinking

2. Hunting

3. Match/ultimate accuracy

When striving for the "ultimate load" I trickle charge and weigh all charges. I also turn necks, anneal, etc etc. But I also buy multiple quantities of powder and primer that come from the same lot manufacture.

Does all of that really make a difference? *shrug* It depends on how well I'm shooting on any given day, I suppose. But I enjoy reloading as much, if not more, than I do actual shooting these days, so all the additional prep and work I do isn't a bother for me.

When someone says certain powders wont meter, I know they are not using a Belding & Mull measure. They accurately measure anything I've tried, but I'm not an old time reloader only 46 years.

I weigh all rifle loads.

But, there is a way of making this much easier, especially when I am loading a lot of ammo.

Set your powder measure to drop the charge weight you wish to have.

Charge all your cases.

Empty each case in turn onto a digital scale. If the charge is correct, put it in that case, if not, adjust it.

Depending on the powder, you might find that many of them are charged correctly, and some need to be adjusted.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
When someone says certain powders wont meter, I know they are not using a Belding & Mull measure. They accurately measure anything I've tried, but I'm not an old time reloader only 46 years.

If that is true, I'm going to buy one.

There are only a few powders that meter precisely enough for me not to weigh individual charges. One of the very best is IMR 8208 XBR.

quote:

There are only a few powders that meter precisely enough for me not to weigh individual charges. One of the very best is IMR 8208 XBR.

I've found all ball powders to meter with extreme accuracy.....also many pistol powders meter very well.....but not all of them.

Varget also meters so well that I don't weigh all the loads I make with it.

As a matter of fact, since the "short cut" powders have arrived on the scene, my scale has seem much reduced use.....now if we could duplicate IMR-800X with aball powder for 20 Ga loads I'd be one very happy reloader.

I never weigh charges in anything I load for, my Redding 3BR consistently metres to within +\-.1gr and this has no effect on velocity even in my comp rifles. What I found to make the biggest difference in large cases, such as my comp 300WinMag, is packing scheme of the powder itself.
My method is to dump into the scale pan and swirl the charge into the case with a funnel. The difference between swirled to unswirled is quite staggering, I can get a charge that as dumped will be level with the case mouth, or even over flowing, to be at the shoulder/neck juncture and this has made the biggest difference to ES and SD in lowering them and being consistent.
I think this is more important than whether you weigh or metre your charges.

Cheers.

Ball powders do measure constantly most of the time. I been told by two gunsmiths that ball powder has blown up more rifles than anything else had. My only mishap with reloading was with a ball powder called tac. I was loading a 260 at the range. I had shot a string at my first setting. With no pressure signs. I was using a Redding bench-rest measure. I wnt up 1/2 a grain and checked it 5 times.I returned each test to the hopper. I threw ten loads and loaded each case. I shot the last case first. I locked up the bolt solid. I tried taping the bolt and broke it off. I had to remove the barrel to get the action open. I pulled and weighed each load from #1 to #9. My charge weight went up steadily to almost 5 grains or a little more than 10%. If I had shot load #1 instead of #10 I would have save the bolt. I would have noticed a sticky bolt by load 3 or 4. I will never know for sure what happened. The measure adj screw was tight, I had a baffle in the measure. The bullet exited barrel safely with no damage so I an sure it was a 6.5 dia.????? I will throw flake and short extruded . I have 16 lbs of military that I been afraid to use, I may try now because of powder shortage and cost. Be carefull!!!!!!


JD

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
When someone says certain powders wont meter, I know they are not using a Belding & Mull measure. They accurately measure anything I've tried, but I'm not an old time reloader only 46 years.

If that is true, I'm going to buy one.

.

I did, and it is. They are a different kind of animal though. Not your average run of the mill powder measure, they are pretty dated. I still prefer using my Lee or Lyman measure, but it is with the PITA powders where the B&M really shines. I want to move away from ball powders as much as possible to less temp sensitive ones, and for that a B&M is a great asset. Now if I could just start seeing some of the powders I really want on the shelves again..

quote:

Originally posted by hawkins:
The weight may change with humidity, the
volume won't.

This is true. After many years of loading, I record measure settings as well as weight. This will give you more consistency when changing lots of powder as well. Load a thousand rounds for your best shooting varmint rifle. Charge half with a measure, half with trickling them all. Shoot them all up, record every group, then let me know how many hours of your life you've wasted weighing powder and trickling.

The only time I weigh charges is when I am working up a load or setting up the meter.
A little over a decade ago I was able to be in the company of some of the better benchrest shooters at that time.
A schooling for sure, one take home was no one seemed to use a scale for reloading for the "match".
I asked why and was told that the volume was more important than actual weight(with in reason).
These people were shooting 25 shot averages of 0.2" and less. Hard to argue with this.
Yes you can weigh your charges and if you "feel" you are doing better this way then you will. Not because of the weight vs. volume but because you believe in this technique.
If you don't have confidence in your loads you will not do as well as you could.

muck

I have a lot of different rifles and calibres, and I bought a Lyman 1200 DPS3, so I let it weigh all my charges for me.

I hardly ever load more than 100 rifle rounds in a sitting, so it works fine.

I admit that when I just got it I was very disappointed at the fact I'd wasted nearly $500 AU, since the charges were all over the place - sometimes over by more than .7 gr.

Then I saw the teeny little grommetty "thingie" that said "if you're using coarse powder like H4381SC you may need this, and a great light flashed because I thought H4381SC is the same as AR2213SC - which is an Aussie powder, why don't I try it?

So I did - and I think in the past year I have had 3 charges over by .3 gr and that's the worst.

I throw back all charges over by > .1 gr and it's fine.

I'm usually in no great hurry, so waiting while it spews 24 gr for the .223 is easy - 72gr for the 458 can be a bit boring.

i never load more than 100 rounds (222 Rem) at a time and mostly just lots of 50 or less for my other rifles.

I always use the electronic scales now. Even when I use the RCBS thrower I check the scales for any minor variations to ensure correct charge.

The purchase of an RCBS Chargemaster made my reloading life lightyears easier.

I throw "high volume" pistol (.45 ACP, 9mm, .38 special) - any low volume, high power pistol loads (heavy .45 Colt, .44 Mag, etc.) get fully weighed individually.

I weigh every rifle round.