How is it done?

THANKS

Steve........

Steve,
The cartridge neck and shoulder are brought up to around 750 degrees F. It is very important to anneal no lower than 1/2 inch below the case shoulder. Any further will cause case failure and possibly gun and/or shooter injury. One method is to use a propane torch. Hold the neck area under the blue part of the flame for approximately 3 to 4 seconds and then drop into a pan of water to kill the heat. You may want to invest in a temp crayon until you feel confident enough to do without. Simply mark the case below the shoulder junction and watch for it to melt.
Good luck ,
Bolt

I made a little turntable to spin the cases. I used the cassette player mechanism from a player that was junk, made a small plywood box for it and used a holesaw to cut the "table". Pressed that onto the spindle, used a power supply from old recorder (12V) and toggle switch. On "play" it spins them just right. I fill sink, put case on table, turn on, put Bernzo-matic to the case, when low/dull red, pluck it into water with finger. Works like a charm. No burned fingers.

Roger
I tried a tape drive, unless the brass was perfectly centered it spun off. Now I use the rotisserie off an old barbecue .Perfect speed

RR

I started out doing them standing in a pan of water in a dark room. Heat until you just imagine a glow, then flick them over into the water.

Now I just hold them in my hand and roll them in front of a stationary propane torch flame, then drop them into the water. (The fitting on a Bern-o-Matic fits the common lantern propane cans, by the way.)

It's easy to overheat them, which reduces bullet retention. The temp-stik crayons are a good idea, but tedious.

The best rig I've seen is a 1/2" circular aluminum plate that fits your biggest stove burner. Drill a circle of ten neck-size holes in the plate and chamfer at the neck angle. Regulate the temp using temp-stik or IR temp meter. (With an electric stove you just learn the proper setting.) Stand the brass in the plate, by the time you've filled it it's time to pull out the first set one-by one and replace them. I have a friend who does it this way.

(It's nice to have somebody to point to and say "See, he's anal retentive, I'm just careful!)

Don

Champion's Choice in Tennessee has a plate that fits on top of a stove eye that has ten caliber specific studs made on to it. They retail for less than $30.00.
Bolt

Boltgun,
Sounds like the right answer to me - especially if you have an electric stovetope.
Don

I bought a annealing tip for Todd at Varmint Den it works better than any other way I have tried. It is 40 bucks sounds high for a tip but it is well worth it. I just put about 1/2 inch of water in a large baking sheet and put the circular tip over the case heat for 7-8 seconds an tip case over in the water. It is the best 40 bucks I have spent on reloading equipment. Not to mention Todd answers all my stupid questions.

Check out www.realguns.com. In the archives section is a recent article about cartridges and a whole section on annealing.
ZM

[This message has been edited by Zeke (edited 03-23-2001).]

RR,
Yup, me too. I must have spent an hour getting one case as perfectly centered as I could using a butterknife and a fork. I would make tiny adjustments using the fork and the butterknife to center, I then cut off the juice, drew a circle on my wooden disk..voila!

Hey Todd can you post a good picture of your
annealing tip. It sounds like one I have for my Turbo Torch

RR

Put a long nail on the end of a dowel-- long enough to support a case from the primer flash hole, fine enough to fit through the flash hole.

Secure the Bernz O Matic in a vise. Hold the brass by the dowel and turn the neck in the blue cone of the flame. (In near dark.) When the brass turns dull-red, drop it in a large bucket of cold water.

A really large bucket won't have the brass heating the water. And the water serves as a cushion so's you don't nick the case necks.

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PowderBurns Black Powder / Muzzle Loading Forum:

www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=powderburns

Annealing brass is a ductility restoration process. As a powerplant foreman for 35 years I know something about metallurgy.
The faster you cool your brass the more you negate your gains in ductility. The better method is to stand all your cases in water to about 1/2" below the shoulder. Heat from above for uniform heat dispersion and pull the torch tip away as "color" is achieved. Leave each case to cool on its own as the water will both prevent any hardening of the lower portions of the case and ensure a slower but uniform rate of cooling. I think you will feel a higher degree retained ductility with this approach.

I agree, if your dropping in water your cooling too fast. Stand them in water and let them air cool. Im not an expert in metallurgy but I do make knives and have been involved in the heat treating (hardening and annealing) dont cool too fast and your results will be more consistent.

Chapter 10: Annealing, Normalizing, and Stress Relieving

Nonferous Metals

Annealing of most nonferrous metals consists of heating them to the recrystallization temperatures or grain growth range (660 degrees Fahrenheit in the case of cartridge brass) .... and cooling them to room temperature. The rate of cooling has NO effect on most nonferrous metals such as copper or brass, BUT.... quenching in water is sometimes beneficial.

From "Practical Metallurgy and Materials of Industry" by John E. Neely.

The people I consider to be experts on the subject of case annealing recommend QUICK and uniform quenching of the entire cartridge in water.

I'm BY FAR no expert, but I follow the advice of the experts and have had good results!

DaMan

PS - Gard, how can I order an annealing tip from "The Varmint Den"? Do you have contact info? I'm using a Bernz-o-matic tip now, but since I usually only anneal the necks, I think a finer controlled flame would be better.

DaMan

I'm not a metalurgist, but Varmint Al is a molecular engineer for Lawrence-Livermore, the atom bomb people.

Word I get from Al is that ferrous metals need slow cooling to anneal and non-ferrous metals need fast cooling.

Dull red in the dark or near dark. Othewise you overheat the brass and that messes up the alloy.

Varmint Al's Reloading Page:

http://www.cctrap.com/~varmint/arelo.htm

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PowderBurns Black Powder / Muzzle Loading Forum:

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"If you let the case get red, it's a goner. Ignore published "expert" (but totally wrong) advice that tells you to heat it red-hot. Squeeze the mouth with pliers, and you'll see how soft it is. Remember two things: shine and light blue. Anything further is too much - and even these, too far below the shoulder, mean too much heat." From "Custom Cartridges" by Ken Howell.

I've followed Ken Howell's advice (only slightly modified) using the following equipment:

Bernz-o-matic torch
electric screwdriver
Lee case holder
650 degree "Tempilstick"
bucket with cold water

DaMan

PS - Hodgodon also makes an annealing kit now that uses "Tempilaq" (I believe that's the name of their liquid temperature sensing laquer).

PPS - Even the "tempsticks and templaqs" will not provide you with EXACT results, BUT they sure work a lot better than my eyeball for determing correct annealing temps. I've tried the "dull red in a dark room" approach. My results were disappointing. For consistant results, I find the various temp sensing stick and laquers better than "eyeballing". But I suppose with enough practice (and lost cases), one could get pretty good with the "eyeball" method.

[This message has been edited by DaMan (edited 05-16-2001).]

My book (cited in the preceding post) has an error in my little discourse on annealing. (I confess � I done it all by m'self). (

I got the break-over point correct (in degrees Celsius) when I looked it up. I made no mistake in converting �C to �F. But ol' Fumblefingers hit the wrong key and instead of the correct "660�F," I typed the incorrect "650�F" in my notes and rough draft, and didn't catch it until just recently.

So instead of a 650�F to 660� F temp stick, you should be using one rated at 660�F to not more than 700�F.

I don't know how anyone can consider this method less than precise. It's actually much more precise and consistent than the method I've seen in use where the biggies make their factory ammo.

Within one second of reaching a temperature within 1�F of the temp stick's rated temperature, the crayon mark responds by turning liquid or changing color. I don't know how you could get a more accurate result more quickly or more consistently.

But what do I know? �o)

Ken H, you made it perfectly clear in your book that 660-665 F is the desired temperature for cartridge brass annealing. The problem is...... I can't find a temperature indicating crayon in that temperature range. I checked with McMaster-Carr and decided on the 650 F crayon. The next higher temperature crayon they carry is the 700 F.

I've been marking the case with the 650 F crayon a bit below where I want the annealing to occur. When the conducted heat melts the 650 F crayon mark below the area I want annealed, I know the area directly receiving the flame is at proper (or near proper) annealing temperature. It took me a few tries to locate the proper place on the case to put the crayon mark, but I've had pretty good results once I found the best location for the mark.

As I understand it McMaster-Carr can special order other temperature range crayons, but they are very expensive and (it's my impression) a large quantity must be ordered. http://www.mcmaster.com Keyword: temperature indicating crayons

If there are crayons available in the proper temperature range, that would sure make life easier.

TIA! DaMan

DaMan,

So where's the magic spot?

Don

Don, the "magic spot" varies from cartridge to cartridge and how much of the case (neck/ shoulder/or body) you wish to anneal.

DaMan

At the price of bulk brass these days do you guys really think its worth annealing after you have shot the rounds 10 times..I usually just toss them and start over. My times worth more than that...

I'm interrested in your comments but I doubt that I'll change my mind..except on brass thats not replacable or hard to come by...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray, some wildcat cartridges require annealing for proper forming. Also, annealing increases the life expectancy of certain expensive and rare cartridge cases.

Would I recommend annealing the cases of cartridges you can buy at X-Mart???!! No way!........ Unless I were bored, or wanted to go for maximum uniformity of bullet pull.

DaMan

To each his own. You can at least double the useful life of brass AND maintain better accuracy and consistency by annealing regularly. A-Square recommends annealing every other reload. I do it every 5 to 7 reloads. Doesn't take long and certainly less time than manicuring and prepping new cases. Bob

DAman,
I think I stated that in my last sentance...

338,
you may be correct, I don't doubt your wisdom but I can get about 14 loadings out of a case sometimes and always 10, I figure they are shot by then....and If I did a lot of target shooting I would more than likely anneal cases but I have loaded so much ammo over the years that I will die of old age before I get it half shot up...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray, in the last line of my post above, I gave the main reason for annealing "easy to get" cartridges. Maybe I didn't go into enough detail to be easily understood.

Uniform bullet pull is important to accuracy. With repeated loadings, the brass (epecially the case neck) becomes work hardened. This is detrimental to uniform bullet pull (which affects accuracy). Annealing softens the brass to it's original condition.

If you only load readily available cases a few times (say... 5 times or less), then you don't need to anneal. For example, I throw my once fired 5.56mm/.223 Rem. military cases away after only three reloadings (for loadings total).

But, if you are going to load your cases 10 times or more as you do, you might want to consider annealing them about half way through their life cycle. I think you'll see an improvement in accuracy and case life.

DaMan