As you might know I am a beginner at reloading.So far I am getting one load to shoot about a 1 1/2 in group at 100 yds.I will be deer hunting with this gun so I am happy with this load so far.But I would like to shrink the group if I can.So.........what is my next step?I am not at max yet.Do up the powder or mess with the COL?Is there a science to this or is it all trial and error?

By the way....I am reloading a 243 with IMR 4350 using Nosler Partions.I tried one load with IMR 4831.They shot all over the place.Can I assume my rifle doesnt like this powder or should I do some other loads and see what happens?

mdmike

Tell us a little more about your .243. Make barrel lenght, twist, and the sights or scope your using.

You may wanna try different primers and increase the powder charge a little. You can stick a piece of rubber between the bottom of the barrel and the forend. You may want to get a more rigid rest. If your gul loves 4350 and hates 4831, then so be it.

mdmike,
What makes an accurate load depends on your needs. If you are shooting deer within 100yds then what you have will work. BUT you can do better.
What you need to remember is the bullet must exit the barrel the same way every time. Some powders will be "spent" by the muzzle others will still be cooking. Barrel vibration does have a key to exit also. This is where seating depth can change your group size.
Not knowing what you have for a rifle/scope/rings/mount combo makes us just guess to help you out. Also not seeing your shooting rest set up makes it difficult. If you have a rough trigger it will take some out of the quality you can get.
Anything you do to the cartridge will change the barrel time which in turn will adjust your group size.



Smedley

I`d work up to my max load with the powder you are useing then change seating depth, primer etc. Be sure to only change one thing at a time or you won`t know for sure what caused the results you get.

1. The right powder for a particular cartridge can make a huge difference. You might try IMR 4064.

2. As another poster said, I would work up the load charge until the groups started opening up. I would then stick with whatever load gave the best accuracy even if not maximum.

3. In my experience primer type may but does not usually affect accuracy much.

4. Go for maximum length that is compatable with but bullets being just off the lands and with dependable cycling from the magazine.

5. Bullet type frequently makes a big difference in accuracy. You might try experimenting a bit with this.

As a general rule, I have found that my best accuracy usually comes near max powder charge. And I faithfully use a chronograph because it tells me how uniform the speed of my handloads are. Wide speed dispersion does not yield tiny groups.

However, if your benchrest technique is not exactly the same with every shot, you're not going to shrink those groups no matter how much you fuss with the recipes. This advise pertains to everyone, not just you mdmike or other rookie handloaders. Technique at the bench is mentioned far too little on this forum but is of utmost importance.

An example...your .243 just might be shooting one hole groups but you'd never know it cause this is how you are sighting it in. Crumple up an old overcoat on the hood, fold the sling under the fore end, rest your belly up against the fender of your pickup truck, use your non-trigger hand to adjust the buttstock and send one downrange. Then eject the spent case, load another round, adjust the coat, slide everything to a different spot on the hood cause you didn't feel real comfortable for the first shot, and do this for three shots and call it your group. Or perhaps you know from experience that powder burns on clearcoat paint are hard to remove so you just lean up against the closest tree or fencepost cause you're real anxious to see how the latest batch of reloads will shoot.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that tiny groups are easy to come by. It takes time and dedication to detail to remove all the variables that cause bullet dispersion. Handloading is a rewarding hobby that can last a lifetime. And sometimes the pursuit of perfection takes time. Most good things do. Also, remember to work safely.

In my experience accuracy is improved (in the reloading process, no gunsmithing!) in this order:

Bullet (start with match grade...they're cheaper than partitions!)

Powder

Powder charge

All others (primer, seating depth, etc.)

I start with Sierra Matchkings in the same weight as the bullets I intend to hunt with. If the SMK isn't available in that weight, use gamekings...they're close enough. A single box of 100 will more than tell me what I want to know.

I switch powders running 3 sets of charge weights of each powder for 3-5 powders that I might have on hand. If you're new, ask here for recommendations and use what others seem to have best luck with. Most calibers have a few powders that seem to work more often than not...starting with a proven winner saves time and $$$, not to mention frustration.

I pick the best powder from step 1, then play with tuning the charge further, changing seating depth, primers, etc.

If step 1 didn't work well (1.5" or so), it's time to start gunsmithing and stop wasting bullets, IMO of course. Some guys will run several hundred rounds through a 2-3" shooter loooking for a magic load, but if I can't get to 1.5" or so with this procedure and 5 suitable, proven powders, I'll start tweaking the rifle by bedding/floating/restocking etc.

Have fun, and welcome to the addiction!

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
mdmike

Tell us a little more about your .243. Make barrel lenght, twist, and the sights or scope your using.

I am loading for a Ruger M77 with a 22in barrel.The twist? I dont know.A 3x9 Nikon sits on top.The best load I have so far using Nosler Partions 100gr. is 40.5 grains of IMR 4350. COL 2.633.Do laugh but I am shooting across my truck hood.I have a plastic box that I put sandbags on.I shoot in a standing position.It is comfortable and stable.Even though I havent been handloading for too long I have been shooting all my life.If I pull a shot I know as soon as the gun has fired.I know how to sqeeze off a shot.I qualified with the M16 twice when I was in the Marines.I shot expert both times.Not trying to be a dick or anything just saying that I can shoot.

I inherited this rifle and the loading equipment from my brother.He loaded some plinking (varmint) rounds.They shoot really good....under an inch.But he didnt document them so I dont know what they are loaded with.So I know the gun can shoot.The trigger is a little heavy but has no creep to it.Ok I dont want to be too long winded.Any help will be appreciated.

Oh yeah.....something I just remembered to add.I have been shooting 3 shot groups.When I shoot I get two shots either touching or almost touching.Then one about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch away.I dont know the order of which ones hit where.I shoot three then walk to the target.I guess that isnt the best way to do things huh?

Mike.

The lads just about have it pinned, the only things l could add are... lf your rifle seems to nearly like the load you've got but keeps throwing one off group try this. Take the aol for you given load, and run out about 20 rounds at max length. Now when you next go to the range take a press with the bullet seating die in and a set of callipers. Start by firing three rounds of max lenght, and note the group. lf it's not to your liking set the next three rounds back about .002 and shoot again...and so on until you find how much effect the differant seating depths make to your load.
lf this doesn't improve you groups then as CDH said it may be time to look at the rifle it's self and maybe getting her glass bedded

But it's always fun tryin' to get 'em to shoot.

ATB.

Dave.
....

quote:

Originally posted by Dave2431:
Mike.

The lads just about have it pinned, the only things l could add are... lf your rifle seems to nearly like the load you've got but keeps throwing one off group try this. Take the aol for you given load, and run out about 20 rounds at max length. Now when you next go to the range take a press with the bullet seating die in and a set of callipers. Start by firing three rounds of max lenght, and note the group. lf it's not to your liking set the next three rounds back about .002 and shoot again...and so on until you find how much effect the differant seating depths make to your load.

.

ATB.

Dave.
....

This is something I havent thought of but seems like a good idea.

mdmike

Well we know that the gun is capable of some better groups from the history you shared with us. Nosler partitions are not known for there pin point accuracy. They will shoot some fair groups. But standard bullets in most cases will out shoot them.

If it were me I'd switch over to a Nosler Accu-Bond or a Hornady Interbond. I think you will find they will shoot much better for you.

The IMR 4530 is probably one of the better powders in the .243 with the size bullet your are using. One other very good one is RL22.

You didn't mention the primer. I've had my best .243 loads with CCI and Fed 205 primers it can make a differance. As for COL I'd be looking at getting a lot closer to 2.710 or a hair longer depending on your rifles throat.

Oh five shot groups will tell you a lot more about you and the gun. But you do have a 300 yard hunting load there.

Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
mdmike

Well we know that the gun is capable of some better groups from the history you shared with us. Nosler partitions are not known for there pin point accuracy. They will shoot some fair groups. But standard bullets in most cases will out shoot them.

If it were me I'd switch over to a Nosler Accu-Bond or a Hornady Interbond. I think you will find they will shoot much better for you.


You didn't mention the primer.
Good luck.

I didnt know the accuracy reputation of the Partions.I know a 243 is on the small side for deer.Thats why I wanted to use a bonded type of bullet.I have shot many deer with a 270 and on two occasions I had the bullet(Rem coreloks)seperate.Both times the deer died quickly.I wonder what would have happened if I were using a 243?

Primers I am using are CCI

Mike I've shot deer with my .243. I used a Hornady 87 gr Interlock not the new bonded bullets. They dropped in their tracks. You will have some range limitation compared to the .270 but don't take that little gun to lightly.

Jay,range isnt really a problem.Most of the deer I have shot with a firearm were between bow range out to about 50 yrds.The farthest I shot was maybe 150 yrds.I like to hunt near the thick stuff.Getting a clear shot is tough sometimes.This is where I need accuracy.I wont try to shoot through any trash.But slipping a bullet through a small opening is where its at for me.


By the way........thanks for the advise

I've shot some pretty good groups over the hood of the truck, when I was younger and had good eyes and breath control. Now I use every edge I can get and don't shoot as good off a bench rest. Sounds like, tho, you could use a slightly better setup, if you really want to see what this rifle will do. I also have a 77 featherweight. I'd suggest glass bedding the action front and tang, then free float the barrel. If that doesn't shoot, then put a little pressure on the forend of the barrel as others have suggested. To get a good idea of the twinking needed to make one really shoot, take a look at www.stevespages.com. Under the gunsmithing section there is a thread on Model 77 triggers - you need to lighten up yours. Try different bullets and powders as suggested. I think you'll find out that this little rifle will shoot good groups, but don't expect bull gun accuracy out of a featherweight 22 inch barrel. If you can, get your hands on an inexpensive spotter and check every shot to see which ones are the "flyers". If there is no consistency, then it isn't barrel or stock creep. Double check your scope, but it doesn't sound like that is a problem. Try different bedding screw tensions - some set ups want them real tight, others a bit looser. And always give your barrel some time to cool off between groups. Keep shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by mdmike:

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
mdmike

Tell us a little more about your .243. Make barrel lenght, twist, and the sights or scope your using.

I am loading for a Ruger M77 with a 22in barrel.The twist? I dont know.A 3x9 Nikon sits on top.The best load I have so far using Nosler Partions 100gr. is 40.5 grains of IMR 4350. COL 2.633.Do laugh but I am shooting across my truck hood.I have a plastic box that I put sandbags on.I shoot in a standing position.It is comfortable and stable.Even though I havent been handloading for too long I have been shooting all my life.If I pull a shot I know as soon as the gun has fired.I know how to sqeeze off a shot.I qualified with the M16 twice when I was in the Marines.I shot expert both times.Not trying to be a dick or anything just saying that I can shoot.

I inherited this rifle and the loading equipment from my brother.He loaded some plinking (varmint) rounds.They shoot really good....under an inch.But he didnt document them so I dont know what they are loaded with.So I know the gun can shoot.The trigger is a little heavy but has no creep to it.Ok I dont want to be too long winded.Any help will be appreciated.

Oh yeah.....something I just remembered to add.I have been shooting 3 shot groups.When I shoot I get two shots either touching or almost touching.Then one about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch away.I dont know the order of which ones hit where.I shoot three then walk to the target.I guess that isnt the best way to do things huh?

Why are you using a truck hood when you have a good range 10 miles away? I know, I use the range, it's on the road that goes past the Carroll County landfill off of Hwy 140. It's cheap, well set up and they sell targets and the like. There is lots of advice there also but that's free.

www.stevespages.com Are you sure this link is correct?I went there and it seems to be some kind of media site.

quote:

www.stevespages.com Are you sure this link is correct?

Damn sure. Stephen Ricciardelli has compiled more reloading and general firearms info than you can shake a stick at.

But some folks need to be spoon fed. Click this link http://www.stevespages.com/page8.htm
and scroll to the bottom of the page. There you will find tables 1 through 9. Pick what interests you.

quote:

Originally posted by mdmike:

So far I am getting one load to shoot about a 1 1/2 in group at 100 yds. I will be deer hunting with this gun so I am happy with this load so far, but I would like to shrink the group if I can.

Is there a science to this or is it all trial and error?

By the way....I am reloading a 243 with IMR 4350 using Nosler Partions.I tried one load with IMR 4831.They shot all over the place.Can I assume my rifle doesnt like this powder or should I do some other loads and see what happens?

Only change ONE variable at a time! 1.5" groups are pretty good as a first result! I suggest you load up 5 rounds using 0.5 grain more powder than your current load, then 5 more, 1 grain higher, then 5 more 1.5 grains higher, etc., and shoot each load for group. I suspect you will see a trend - bigger or smaller grouping - when you fire the first ten. When you get to the smallest group, OR you see signs of excessive pressures (like a sticky bolt opening) stop increasing the powder charge. If your bolt opens hard, you are about 5% too high already, and need to cut back! If you got a good group by doing this before pressures get too high, you need to load up 5 more rounds with the best powder charge, and shoot another group to confirm your findings.

However, if your loads produce increasing group size from the beginning level, you are going in the wrong direction. In such a case, then load DOWN in 0.5-grain increments and test these rounds!

IF it develops that you have not gotten better groups by loading up or down from your 1.5" load, you should next try a different powder type, and do the same thing. After finding the MOST ACCURATE powder type and charge weight, further accuracy refinement can be sought by vaying bullet seating depth, then by varying make of bullet, then primer brand, etc.

BUT only change one variable at a time.

(BTW, IMR 4350 is an excellent powder for the .243, and should give you accurate results. So is H414/WW760. IMR 4831 should also work OK in a .243. BUT, I get BETTER ACCURACY from IMR 4350 in my .270's than I do from 4831, even though 4831 will give me higher velocities! Of course, your rifle maight be just the opposite once you find a good 4831 load for it......

I suppose you would call this trial and error, rather than scientific, because there is no way I know of to predict in advance what variable you have to change, nor the required amount of such a change, necessary to make YOUR rifle shoot better than it is now!

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
mdmike

Tell us a little more about your .243. Make barrel lenght, twist, and the sights or scope your using.

Frankly, I fail to see how knowing any of this requested information can help someone tell you what you need to do to improve the accuracy of your handloads!!