What are your favorite "Brush Buster" bullets and Cals?

I have found the 30-30 win loaded w/ 150 or 170 grain RNs and FPs work great for busting through small brush w/o dramatic effects on accuracy. I have shot through small saplings w/ the 30-30 and still made successful kills.

I like the 35 Rem. w/ some 200 grn CLRNs for brush work too.


I was wondering what cals you guys were using and how they've been working out in the past?

I have a close friend that is looking for a good brush buster but, he's not sure which cal./gun he is going to choose.

I have got him on to Marlins Lever Line they seem to have served well for many. My 336s have never let me down.

Reloader

I don't know what you mean by "brush buster", but if you are looking for a caliber that will reliably travel on a straight path through brush/twigs/branches, etc., and kill something on t'other side, it's like the farmer said when he saw the giraffe: THEY AIN'T ANY SICH ANNYMAL.....

IMHO
the 3030, 35rem, 356win, 375 win, and 45 LC are all great brush guns, in a lever gun. the 358 win is a savage/browning choice..

but, the granddady of them all, a 45/70 with 405s at 1750 fps is THE brush gun.

given a choice (and I've hunted this in webster parish) I like the 358 in a fast carbine or lever gun, with 250s or 225s 2350 to 2500 fps

jeffe

The .348 Win with a 250 grain hard cast has worked well for me.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com

I like my 9.3x62 with 286 grain solids, PMP softs work well so it is them I use when I load a soft

Flip

My .585 Nyati with 750 gr woodleigh's at 2300 fps

As usual, lots of opinions, all right of course! I agree with Jeffe, the 45/70 is probably the grandaddy. I also like the Marlin lever actions, but I sold my 336 30.30 a few years back. I now use a .444 Marlin in the 444P Outfitter, which is as close to the 45/70 as you can get without getting the real thing. I traded for the 444, intending to use it as trade bait, and just can't bear to let it go. Great bush gun for hogs and deer, but I still don't shoot at anything I can't clearly see, or through anything that I think will affect the bullets flight.

As far as ammo, the 240 gr factory Remington ammo works fine for me. I haven't reloaded any yet, but plan to try some of Seafire's blue dot loads with a larger bullet (somewhere around 300 gr.). Good luck making a choice after we all thoroughly confuse you.

take care, TJ

Nothing short of a full-auto ma-deuce. It will, indeed BUST the brush. JMO, Dutch.

One thing I cant help but consider on the subject of "brush busters" is the many variations of brush! Some are green and very easily moved, some are hard and rigid. Mix them all together and any bullet is bound to get deflected eventually.

I once read an article that supposedly tested the concept of brush busting, they placed numerous dowell rods in front of a target, shot through them and checked the accuracy, which was quite good. My problem with that is that dowell rods are dry and rigid wheras branches on a tree are not nessecarily so.

Im not so sure about this debate as I dont make it a habit to shoot into foileage. But its interesting nonetheless.

I guess my brushbuster is my 35 Whelen. But I would bet good money that there are no better bullets for that task then something like Elmer Kieths wadcutter type designs.

Hey Reloader .. I think you are just kiddin' .. several years ago one of the popular magazines (don't think it was Am Rifleman .. but might have been Guns & Ammo or Shooting Times).. did a test with most of the popular calibers shooting through brush at a target .. NONE OF THEM did very well .. the 220 swift did as well as the big guns .. IF you killed a deer after going through a sapling, I would say you were pretty lucky .. I think you should just wait for the clear shot .. mpb

It never ceases to amaze me that so many so called educated gun types think brush cartridges are about busting brush. A good brush cartridge is such because it penetrates deeply from any angle which is why heavy bullets at moderate velocity work so well. Since most of the time waiting for the perfect ballistic tip moment means no shot cartridges like the 30-30 and 45-70 outperform the fast cartridges. These two also don't destroy meat wholesale like the 270 and 7 mags.

Seafire and rjn are on the right page here in that bullets with high sectional density at moderate velocity ar the more stable and least easily deflected...BUT, I also fall in the camp that believes there is no such thing as a reliable brush busting bullet. Certainly under the right circumstances bullets can hit brush, branches, saplings and still strike a deer in a vital area. Anybody that doesn't admit to there being a reasonable amount of luck involved is kidding themselves. My own personal opinion, which I'm sure will get me beat up, on cartridges such as the .444, 45/70, shotgun slugs, etc. is that sometimes they are considered good "brush busters" because they kick the crap out of shooters. I think there is a tendancy for some to think "Man!!!, this thing will blast through anything..." Sort of like movie portrayls of bad guys getting picked up and flying backwards when shot with a shotgun. And I don't mean that as a knock that they are effective deer rounds. To me a "brush buster" cartridge is less important than a good brush rifle. A gun that is quick handling and pointing allows the hunter to shoot quickly and follow up if necessary. That is why the 30-30, .35, .444, etc really are considered good brush guns because they are most often offered in rifles that are well suited for that type of hunting. JMHO.

Jeff

If you can't translate ft-lbs into "it hurts" or "it doesn't hurt", my Marlin 1895 (22" barrel, and scoped) is more annoying to shoot than my .458 Lott. This is due to the muzzle rise, which inevitably causes the stock to whack me in the face, and the trigger guard and lever ring to bang my fingers up pretty good. This is with full-power 405 gr loads at 1850+ fps. With more "normal" loads, it's a pop gun.

However, I would still highly recommend the .45-70 Marlin. Load 'em lighter for fun and cheap practice; heavy for hunting. You'll love it.

Pertinax

So you want a Brush Buster

I missed a very large Doe while hunting during muzzle-loader season a few years ago. All I could see was the head and neck clearly so I tried a head shot and the only small limb in the way I couldn't see deflected my bullet I did make a very nice grove in the ground you could have planted tomatoes in.

So much for my brush busting experience.



BTW I was using a 54cal rifle with 100grs RS pyrodex and a patched RB.

I think several didn't get the true meaning of the whole thread. No one said a bullet would not get deflected if it struck a limb.

We said that if a Reasonably heavy, Blunt Nosed, Slow Velocity bullet stricks a limb close to the animal at reasonably close ranges that the bullet will not be deflected much. It will definitely not be deflected enough for a miss.

If you do not believe this concept, you apparently haven't tested the theory. Just take some targets and place them behind brush (Briar thickets and small bushes work great) at various close distances (0-75 yards) and fire several rounds from different angles w/ a rifle such as a 30-30, 35Rem, 444, or a 45-70. You will gather very quickly that the bullets are deflected very little. If you get a deflection of 1, 2, or maybe 3 inches when the kill zone is of 12" diameter or bigger, Your NOT going to miss the animal. I've never missed under these circumstances and that is after quite a few "Brush Busting" kills. You may say that is luck, call it what you want. To me luck is like winning the lotto, I'll keep taking my brush shots.

Those of us who have taken dozens of animals in this fashion know that these shots are easily done w/ the proper equipment.

Sitting here looking around my trophy room, I could tell several hunting stories of these bucks that I wouldn't have gotten if I hadn't taken a shot through the brush.

If you don't think it will work, don't kid yourself. Just let em' walk, that's just another throphy for us "Brush Busters."

Good Luck and God Bless!

Reloader

I'm not sure when the concept changed to shooting through brush from shooting from the brush. When in the "brush", I like a short, quick to shoulder rifle to bring on target. I grew up in central Michigan and there brush guns were .30-30, .32 Winchester and .35 Remington lever guns mostly. Ranges were typically short and still hunters wanted a gun that would not get in the way as the moved through the "brush". It was more a matter of handling qualities and not caliber and not about shooting through brush.

I'm 28 Ray and I believe, I believe!

Chuck

I get a kick out of the term "brush buster" and out of those that believe such a caliber exists..I have seen and head the 45-70s richochet off small limbs and I have seen 458s and 500 N.E. rounds and a host of other hit Buffalo in the guts or where ever after deflecting off what I thought were pretty small limbs..Sometimes the do and sometimes they don't....

The bottom line is a 150 gr. 30-06 or 130 gr. 270 is as good a brush gun as a 500 whatchamacallit...It took me about 30 of my 70 years to figure that out, so how long will it take you believers...

Yes, Wstrnhunter your right about the dense woods. Some of the places we hunt are very thick but, It is not so much trees as it is greenery and weeds that grow in our humid, fertile climate. In some areas you just cant see far at all so, you have to really do your homework and study the deer/hog habits. We hunt alot from climbing stands or in Blinds on the occasional Right-of-way. Cleaning out areas (read shooting lanes) works great for some but, through my hunting experience, I have found that shooting lanes changes deer movement especially Mature Bucks so, I try not to disturb the habitat much. I have a few stands on Gas Line and Power Line Right-of-Ways, that's where you can get the occasional long range shots. The animals will cross the right-of-ways, some of them have been there for 30+ years. When you make your own and disturb their habitat, they get spooky. That's why I use my "Brush Busting" rifles. If you want to get the big one, you have to get in his Bedroom.

I do have some stands where I have trimmed lanes but, in some places you just have to if you want to see anything.

Good Luck and God Bless!

Reloader

I've read a number of gun mag. tests on the subject and find their methodology ludicrous at best. Each reports it's most successful performer and the also rans, one finding the spitzers performed better, the others finding favor with the blunt RN's. It's all horse hockey. I've only experienced 2 cases where the bullet(30-30) struck a twig when trying to shoot a deer, the big buck is still alive as near as I can determine, unless old age got him. the other succumbed to a follow up shot. Both of these shots were taken in twilight conditions and the twigs were not visable to me and my sights at the moment of firing. They were found after the fact when I pieced together what happened.

The ballistic dynamics of deflection are definable by math, the variables are just that, and beyond control in the field. IF your bullet hits an obstruction it WILL deflect as a function of bullet shape, mass, velocity and the nature of the material it strikes. Whether it strikes the quarry is a roll of the dice, pure and simple. IF you are determined to believe this myth, load the dice in your favor and shoot only through brush when the quarry is in extremely close proximity to it. Inches instead of feet. Otherwise your statistical sampling of one or two successful events will soon be marred by a lost and greviously wounded animal. You'll get to remember that a long time.

One approach that does provide some success is buckshot, but that too is subject to deflection. The good news is that random probability provides that some of the shot will reach your target. Not all, but then it usually doesn't anyway. Of course, if you're properly using buckshot in the first place, the range is so close that this approach is likely not needed at some point in the changing aspect between hunter and prey.

IMO you're better off passing the shot if it is your only opportunity.

It makes little difference as to caliber or velocity, its a crap shoot at best...I have run tests and they never have the same results twice in a row...

I have listened to a 45-70s and even some of the big bore double rifle rounds whine off into the Sudan from Tanzania or from Limpopo to Dar es salaam after hitting a twig as small as a no. 2 pencil...

I have shot through a ton of vegitable matter with a 75 gr. 6x45 to kill a whitetail buck, win some lose some...

I have used my 30-30 Win. in So. Texas thick stuff and can't tell that it worked any better than my 26" barreled 375 H&H in the African Jesse, guess it depends on where your standing...

Most of this stuff is bunk IMO, just take your favorite rifle and go hunting, don't sweat the small stuff, but this kind of a post ruins all the fun, so I apoligise...Have a good time and disregard this post.

Exactly right Ray. There is nothing magic about the 30-30, .35 Rem., 45/70, etc. in terms of their ability to penetrate brush in relation to other calibers. I personally think that from a theoretical ballistic standpoint the low sectional density bullets of those cartridges are somewhat less stable than say a 175 gr. 7mm bullet but in the real world I don't think the bullet matters all that much. And I'm not bad mouthing those cartridges. All are excellent rounds for close to moderate range deer hunting. I think that Reloader is getting the equation backwards. His 336 is an excellent brush gun. What it's chambered for doesn't much matter. In any case, in thick brush you can generally find a hole to shoot through if you are patient. Hitting brush should always be an accident, not an intent. For that reason I consider a good low power scope to be the best "brush buster" tool out there.

Jeff

I'll second the vote for the 348 winchester, though I prefer the 200 grain hornady to do my 'bustin'...