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Bad brass or head space trouble?
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I have a M96 "Kimber" sporterized 6.5x55. This rifle exhibits excellent accuracy with my handloads and decent accuracy with factory Sellior&Bellot. When I first got it I ordered 100 rounds of the S&B ammo, shot some then with that brass I worked up some loads and found a very accurate load for 140 gr core lokts. Some of this brass has been fired 3 times plus its initial firing to empty the factory loading. A few of the test loads I came up with caused the bolt to be a little sticky and some fairly flat primers. During my latest firing of my fairly sedate accurate load I am seeing on just a few cases a bright ring but it is further up the case than where the web should be it almost looks like a fracture line in the brass but no smokey staining or rupture of any kind. The load is not "stiff" it is 39 grains of IMR-4064 and a 140 gr bullet well away from the lands.
Do you think I should check headspace in this rifle?
Do you think it is just bad brand of brass?
Do you think some of the "sticky bolt" "flat primer" loads stressed the brass and now that stress is showing up on the next firing?

Looking for sage advice and opinions.
PS: my neighborhood gunsmith does not have a guage for a 6.5x55.
Thanks
 
Posts: 5604 | Location: Eastern plains of Colorado | Registered: 31 October 2005Reply With Quote
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Sounds like you may have some headspace problems. What I would do is not full size the brass. If possible neck size and see if the problem goes away. If you can't neck size back of your full lenght sizer alittle bit so it doesn't push the shoulder of the case back any at all. Headspace is from a spot on the shoulder to the face of the bolt. See if that helps. Your load does not sound hot to me either.
 
Posts: 205 | Registered: 31 August 2006Reply With Quote
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Headspace is the space between the case head abd the bolt face. You can take a new cartridge and add
layers of "scotch" tape until you just feel the shoulder touch on closing. If you have headspace back your resizer off . This should be your standard practice anyway.
Good Luck!
 
Posts: 1028 | Location: Mid Michigan | Registered: 08 January 2005Reply With Quote
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I tossed all of my S&B and GRAF brass. I was having similar problems (except no cracks) with practice loads. I now use Rem, Norma, Win with no problems. Brass quality is more important than most realize. Good luck.
 
Posts: 50 | Location: albany, ny | Registered: 09 October 2006Reply With Quote
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To many shooters, headspace is a mysterious term, one to which many evils can be attributed. I've had shooters come in to my shop expressing the belief that their rifles had too much, not enough, none at all and even the wrong kind--I'm still not sure what that guy was talking about. In simple terms, headspace is the dimension of the chamber of your rifle, the gap between the face of the bolt and the stopping surface for the cartridge. To be precise, it is the distance between the face of the bolt and the datum line, which is a circle of stated diameter, along the slope of the shoulder of the cartridge.
 
Posts: 205 | Registered: 31 August 2006Reply With Quote
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In simple terms, headspace is the dimension of the chamber of your rifle, the gap between the face of the bolt and the stopping surface for the cartridge.


. . . and if the corresponding dimensions of the CARTRIDGE are too short for the chamber, then you have "excessive" headspace. By full length sizing your brass, you will almost certainly create more headspace than necessary for flawless chambering. Subsequent firing and reloading will result in the case wall just in front of the web progressively thinning. If you intend to use your brass more than one or two times you must only PARTIALLY resize the brass by backing the sizing die off of the shellholder to prevent the shoulder from being set back, thus creating EXCESSIVE HEADSPACE. Sizind dies and chambers vary. Thus, every individual sizing die must be carefully adjusted to every individual rifle chamber. Simply screwing the die in until it touches the shellholder is blindly trusting to luck and produces an ill-fitting cartridge much of the time.
 
Posts: 13266 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001Reply With Quote
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S&B brass does not have a good reputation with handloaders. Domestically produced brass is undersized and not the best choice, so I think I'd go for Norma brass.
I have yet to see a model 96 Mauser with excessive head space, but having said that I'd still visit my smith and have the head space checked.
 
Posts: 3889 | Registered: 12 May 2005Reply With Quote
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to see if your cases are ready to crack,either cut one in half lengthwise,or bend a piece of wire at a 90 degree angle and cut it off about a 1/4 inch from the bend and stick it inside the case.a ring or crack is easily felt on the inside of the case.
I have a gun that the chamber is very rough and really beats up cases.I thought for sure they were ready to separate after one firing ,but after cutting one in half,it is easily seen to be a surface flaw and not a thinning of the brass


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SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM
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Posts: 2937 | Location: minnesota | Registered: 26 December 2002Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by MaxPayne:
Sounds like you may have some headspace problems. What I would do is not full size the brass. If possible neck size and see if the problem goes away. If you can't neck size back of your full lenght sizer alittle bit so it doesn't push the shoulder of the case back any at all. Headspace is from a spot on the shoulder to the face of the bolt. See if that helps. Your load does not sound hot to me either.


thumb thumbroger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Headspace is the clearence between the case head and the breech, hence the name. It is measured with a datum point. As an example; New York and Cleveland are both located relative to Greenwich England (datum measurement), but they are 500 miles apart (clearence).
 
Posts: 1028 | Location: Mid Michigan | Registered: 08 January 2005Reply With Quote
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You can take a new cartridge and add layers of "scotch" tape until you just feel the shoulder touch on closing.

No you can't. Putting bits of tape on a case tells you nothing. If you have any doubts about the headspace, have it checked with proper guages. Brownell's sells the guages for $30 each. Unfortunately, the only list Go and No-Go. The Go guages are currently out of stock. You really only need the No-Go. mind you, I'd be trying different ammo first. The headspace won't go bad that quickly.


Spelling and grammar count.
 
Posts: 113 | Location: London, Ontario, Canada | Registered: 18 November 2002Reply With Quote
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The layers of tape are added to the base of the case. Measuring the tape gives the headspace
WITH THAT BRASS. Since this is the problem it will give an accurate answer. This is the actual headspace, not a datum point, that my be the source of confusion.
Good Luck!
 
Posts: 1028 | Location: Mid Michigan | Registered: 08 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Once a piece of brass is fired in a particular chamber, as long as it was reasonable to start with, that piece of brass should give you a very accurate measurement as to what the headspace for that chamber should be. Chambers vary with reamer design and reamer wear, a barrel that is the two hundreth barrel to be chambered with a particular reamer will not be exactly the same headspace as the first one done. Brass fired in that chamber should give you what the headspace should be measured to the datum line. When setting up a sizing die some people push the shoulder back a thou. or so, but just neck sizing should give good results for a few reloads unless very hot loads are being shot and requiring more frequent pushing back of the shoulder.


Bob
 
Posts: 529 | Location: Harrison, Maine - Pensacola, Fl. | Registered: 18 January 2005Reply With Quote
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