Hot Core,

If you set your die up to P-FLR (partial full length resize), after say 4-6 loadings or whatever, does the brass springback get noticably different as the brass work hardens up there, causing headspace to tighten up enough you need to readjust the die down at some point, or does it always seem to remain about the same?

Just wondering what to expect over time mainly. I'd guess shoulder angle might play a role and could be different for sharper designs but figured you'd have some good insight on it for starters.

Thanks much.

Anyone else, post your experiences as well.
Mo data, mo betta!

I've got a custom 30-338 and after 5 or 6 heavy loads, I have to finish the brass off in the hand dies. My chamber is pretty snug and even with plenty of lube, my threaded dies are not able to fully size the work-hardened brass.

Partial full length sizing actually means setting the shoulder back .001"-.002". If you do it every time it's not likely you can discern any difference in the hardness of the shoulder. First of all, it isn't worked that much in comparison to the working on the brass in the neck portion. Secondly, the neck DOES work harden and since that is being worked the most, that is where you CAN discern a difference in the force required to size. That's particularly true with dies using an expander.

In the neck of hunting rounds, the minimum working of the brass is usually about .006" or .007". That's in a chamber cut with a good reamer, and using a bushing die. That's made up of about .002"-.003" of "grip" on the bullet and about .004" clearance in the neck. With dies using expanders, that rework of the neck at each resizing jumps to a minimum of about .011".

The latter numbers are a great deal more reworking than using a bushing die and that translates into work hardening of the necks. In comparision, the shoulder set back .001" is only minimal and has little or no effect in comparison to the neck.

I know Hot Core doesn't anneal. I do. Regularly after 4 or 5 reloads. Annealing has a marked effect both in ease of resizing and in accuracy. Since the shoulders are also annealed it's hard to tell what effect, if any, the slight work hardening of the brass in the shoulder has as opposed to the neck.

The shoulder angle truly has little or no effect.

Thanks guys.

Nice to have a good understanding before I get there.

I've actually been P-FLR for a while, just paid closer attention to keeping the headspace a little tighter than I had been for the last many years. I normally adjusted the die down until they just chambered fine, locked the ring and never looked back. I never have run it down to the shell holder and set it there.

After getting a little more serious about it and actually measuring the shoulder setback, I found A little goes a long, long way sometimes. I probably had been setting them back .005" - .007" for a long time, but who knows, I never measured it until this year.

Now I'm on the 7th loading on some of this 300 Ultra brass and about to anneal the stuff, kinda got curious and wondered how long I'd be ok with the die set the way it is, so far so good. I have the die set so headspace is the same as fired cases, or .001" longer (crush fit) and might be a little tighter than most guys run so I wondered. I'm definitely running them tighter than I had been in the past. I was actually quite astonished the die had been pushing some of them back .007" with the way it was set up. Definitely pays to set them up by "measuring" too

I try to anneal after 5 loadings or so, as you can see I'm up to 7 and am just getting to it now. I don't use an expander ball anymore, you can definitely feel the necks gettin harder if you do! Thanks Bob, you put that in great perspective too!

Boy do I have one for ya Hot Core, I put a gage on the end of the reciever and one on the bbl just ahead of it too. Will be testing to see what pressure readings I get off the one on the reciever in comparison to the one on the bbl. Barrel and reciever are both 1.350" diameter and this rifle is getting a bbl block so I won't have a place for a gage when the block is up against the reciever soon. Might work out, might be a waste of time with the threads and all, we'll see...

I did get my Moose already though, thanks. I got lucky second day of season Aug 21. He walked out right in front of me as I was heading to my hunting spot. Giant 24" spread I'd guess , a little fork horn. Tastes good tho.

Good luck to you guys this season too. Ours is over Tuesday for Moose, still taking the kids out trying to get them onto some, all wind and rain while we were out today...

Thanks for sharing your experiences, much appreciated.

Hey Brent, Since you were setting them back 0.007", it might not hurt to use the old "Bent Paper Clip Trick"(any wire will do) on the inside of the case to feel for Incipient Casehead Separation. I'm sure you know to have a good "sharp edge" on the end you run into the Case to do the feeling with.

With a nice rifle like that, it would be a REAL SHAME to either let a Pin Hole develop in the Case and have it Flame Cut the Chamber, or a Casehead Separation do the same over a larger spot.

Totally agree with Bob338 about the new "Expanderless Dies" putting much less Work-Hardening Stress on the cases. And you mention you are already using them, so good for both of you.

Glad to hear you got the Moose. Rumor has it that unless you are from Califoney, the Antlers aren't all that edible anyhow.

By the way, after posting it dawned on me that you are in Alaska. That being the situation, you really don't want to have the bolt "too hard to close" just in case you come face to face with one of your alls BIG BEARS.

In some places where I hunt, there are occasionally some Black Bears, but just not a lot of them and for sure not on a regular basis. Meanest things I normally see are Snakes with a bad attitude, perhaps someones yard dog who is not where he is supposed to be and thinks he is mean, or a Bull that isn't happy to see me. I know where the Bulls are(supposed to be) and I just avoid them.

So, it doesn't matter if my Bolt closes "snug-to-hard". But, you sure don't want to set up a situation where if you should need to cycle the Bolt quickly that it would be fighting you, or even cause you to have to take your eyes off a BIG BEAR!

If you use BIG enough wire on all those Gauges, it migth actually have some use. I can see where it could be used to make a good "Drag Stick" to get your Game out.

Actually I been keeping the wires a bit shorter lately. The wires on the gages for the new Pressure Trace device are even shorter yet.

I never did have a problem with CH seperation in the 300 Ultra, but I did keep track of it with the RCBS Casemaster like I do the others. Turned out that my other calibers I'd been loading for were setting back a couple to three thou is all, the Ultra was the largest problem. New cases been ordered and used ever since then tho. Thanks for the warning anyway. The new 30/338 Lapua Imp with the barrel block is starting with good brass so I'm good there. With no referance ammo for pressure measurments, it would be a good canidate for PRE examination. Maybe I'll look around for a good blade mic and test along side the Pressure trace and the Oehler 43 on this one, for once. Dies for it should be here any day now.